No32 MkI Scope questions.

I have read several on-line articles about the 32/1 and have just some general knowledge about them. I acquired a No4 TR and have a few questions about the scope.

Marked H.B.M. Co. and OS. 466A. REG(?). No. 4024

The windage and elevation knobs turn very free with a very a positive click, so I'm assuming it was been taken apart and serviced at one time. Glass appears clean on the inside with maybe just a touch of etching on the bottom of the rear lens, like you would see from moisture that has dried inside a scope.

The scope mount is marked

NO92 C36311

The clamps Z53 and Z54

I think this is a early scope from 1940 or so.

The scope # on the stock is 18871 and the rifle is a 1944 BSA. I assume that the rifle would have had a No32 MkII or MkIII scope. Is that correct?


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01/m3201-1.jpg

I think the first 6,000 serial nos were originally produced for the Bren gun (a project which never got off the ground). Up to 3,700 ish they went on the trials rifles, and after then were fitted to normal 4ts. HBM Co = Houghton Butcher Manufacturing Company, and I could be wrong but I don't think they ever dated their scopes.

The scope mount: n92 = made by Dalglish of Glasgow. The C36311 would be the rifle number it was fitted to.

Looks like it's been treated to a quick blow job with a can of Halfords finest matt black paint that has covered the range and deflection markings and obliterated the index marks. You can reasonable assume that the last place it was serviced wasn't an instrument shop at a REME workshops!

look at the sky from the front (the objective) lens and it should be as clean as a whistle inside. Then mount it on the rifle, aimed at a distant aiming point (a DAP). Make sure it's stilll and solidly held and without touching the sight in any way, look through it and move your head/eye slightly left and right. The point of the graticle MUST remain on the same focal plane at all times. If it appears to move, well, it shouldn't and you have parallax. But I expect that it'll be OK.

Someone in England was offering an external overhaul service a few years ago. It consisted of stuffing a bit of round tapered wood into the front shade and covering the ocular lens with a dob of plastercine, then shoving the whole thing into a bead blaster. Once bead blasted, it was given a few coats of Halfords finest barbecue black and returned.....complete with the bead blasting grip eating away at the insides of the range and deflection drums. You see, in spite of everything the British enterprisal spirit still lives on

I'm sure it has a repaint from a previous life. Paint is worn off on sharp edges and knobs. So on the deflection markings and index marks, what was the original condition?

Talk about cheap paint, q-tip and clp is taking it off.

The index marks on the range and deflection drums should be highlighted in white to make them visible. Ie, the 0 to 10 and the same with the 16 -0- 16 on the deflection. Also, the little index mark on the plate should be a black triangle on a white metal nickel plate. But the previous owner has painted them over.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to talk to the seller about a possible price adjustment. I have a three day return privilege.
Other wise you have another rebuild coming your way.

Was it normal for the mount cap screws to be staked. All eight are staked. The screw slots are full of crud that's hard as a rock. I'm going to work at getting them cleaned out so I can get the correct size tip into them. I don't believe someone Bubba'd this scope like this. I guess if theirs a buck to be made some folks well do anything.

Just as an aside a very few of the first HBM Co scopes were in fact dated. I don't know how many, but suspect it was only something like 50 or 60. Have seen a couple but never owned one.

If it's black finish on a scope of that vintage then it's been refinished. The early scopes of that era (1941/42ish) were all originally blued.

ATB.

A relevant photo:

Has anyone else noticed that on the Mk1's and 2's, the little WD arow is usually filed in place with a fine 3-corner needle file.

As the photo by surpmil shows, there were several engraving formats for the first telescoipes, even by the same manufacturer, until a final format was fixed

We have a Watson Mk1 displayed in the library......... :thup:

I can't quite tell about the arrow being filed from the pics, but it looks that way. I'll get it out later for a better close-up. Interesting ... :thup:

1941 No.32 Mk1 Sniper Scope (click here)
(Mfg by William Watson & Sons for the No.4 Mk1(T) Enfield Sniper Rifle)

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0_Medium_2.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG

Regards,
Badger

The cradle cap screws should be staked but there is no engineering reason for it on a single shot bolt action rifle as by definition, they are taper lock! and as a rule of thumb, No4T's don't do a lot of machine gun-like fire.

Remember this Mad Crate. Those screws are like rocking horse manure. You COULD make some more but if th taper is wrong, they won't mechanically lock as they should. So, If it ain't broke, then don't fix it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The cradle cap screws should be staked but there is no engineering reason for it on a single shot bolt action rifle as by definition, they are taper lock! and as a rule of thumb, No4T's don't do a lot of machine gun-like fire.

Remember this Mad Crate. Those screws are like rocking horse manure. You COULD make some more but if th taper is wrong, they won't mechanically lock as they should. So, If it ain't broke, then don't fix it

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I under stand about the horse pucky, I have found it necessary to clean my boots in the past.

After cleaning the crud from the screw slots they came out very nicely. I immediately noticed the taper. Much different that my clone mount. I detail cleaned the exterior of the scope, the main body does appear the be blued steel under the paint. My main concern is the cast brass part that the adjustment knobs are located on. These are the parts with the barn paint. What would be the correct finish for these parts? I assume a matt black paint. Would "guncoat" be a OK product to use? I now see the correct marking for the range numbers and the indicator V. that should be very doable during a repaint.

After reading your two part article "Phoenix Rising from the Ashes" I feel confidant about disassembling the scope.

I don't necessarily want this to look new or rebuilt. I would prefer to keep it as original finish as possible. You can see from this photo how the paint came off the turrets.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../clean32-1.jpg

I'm not into originality Cratebuster but it looks as though some of the old brassware was just left to darken naturally. Others have been chemically blacked Maybe a chemical brass black could be used.

There is a hard, hot applied wax stuff we use to highlight the drum markings but reasonably, an kiddies playground wax crayon could be used.

When they came through our workshops, any notion of originality was forgotten about and they went through 'the works'. This 'works' didn't feature blueing or polishing brass etc etc. They just followed the rifle format!

Thank you peter. I have used the brass blackening many times with the cap and ball revolvers I work with.

I think I well remove the paint I have now and see what's under it. Thanks again.

Thanks for the photo Rob.

ATB

P.S. Mea Culpa. I forgot your little parcel -- will attend to!

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It's a little rough looking but works perfect and has clear and sharp optics.

Thanks for the pics MJ1. I know what a new or refurbished scope looks like. Trying to find untouched originals is a little harder.

I have one in better original condition but I can't find it. It's not lost I just put it some place in an anal moment.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by madcratebuilder

After reading your two part article "Phoenix Rising from the Ashes" I feel confidant about disassembling the scope.

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There's an entry in the England Section (click here) of the MKL (Milsurp Knowledge Library), showing the dimensions of the No.32 scope, including the measurements of the cross wires etc. So, if you start rebuilding, besides Peter's excellent two part article series, this may help as well.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...s/sniper-6.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...s/sniper-7.jpg

1952 Instructional Pamphlet for No.4 Mk1(T) sniper rifle (click here)

Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they automatically size smaller in your browser's window making them harder to view. The auto sizing is your browser's way of keeping images entirely within the screen size you have set. Move your mouse pointer to the bottom centre of the pic and you will see an options panel appear. There will be a small square box next to the large X, which will have a pointer arrow sticking out of it. If it's illuminated, it means the pic you're viewing can be enlarged, so click on this box and the pic will EXPAND and open to its normal size.

Regards,
Badger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I'm not into originality Cratebuster but it looks as though some of the old brassware was just left to darken naturally. Others have been chemically blacked Maybe a chemical brass black could be used.

There is a hard, hot applied wax stuff we use to highlight the drum markings but reasonably, an kiddies playground wax crayon could be used.

When they came through our workshops, any notion of originality was forgotten about and they went through 'the works'. This 'works' didn't feature blueing or polishing brass etc etc. They just followed the rifle format!

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This 'works' didn't feature blueing or polishing brass etc etc. They just followed the rifle format!"

Peter , From that could I assume that a coat of sunkorite (sp) found it's way onto the exterior surfaces excepting the range dials ???

Yep, dead right DM. The scopes were stripped, degreased and all the external bits/bracket etc tied together by the Instrument shop then brought into the Armourers shop. Bead blasted, air dried, de-gritted, phosphated and painted and back to the Instrument shop who assembled them. Came back to the Amourers shop who refitted, collimated them and then range tested and zeroed them. I used to take my son in on a Saturday where he'd spend hours with the Armourers zeroing them. They were on overtime so he'd earn a few ££ patching, pasting, rolling the targets and sweeping up.

Where were we after getting side tracked.....? Ah yes. The telescopes were finished in the same way as the rifles

Found it. I was sure I had another blued MkI KL in better shape.

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I had moved it to the '41T last year and packed it away. Another case of CRS with a G&T back.

...MJ...