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A quick question. Who of you have enforcers (real ones, not clones), and what distances do you shoot at, typical sizes of groups, ammunition used, etc. I am trying to get an idea of how enforcers compare with other sniper rifles. I have found some resources regarding enforcer specifications, but I would like to hear about forum member experiences. I may be in the market to buy one, so I want to know what I am getting myself into :)
I have one . . . . . !
Do you get to shoot it? If so, how does it perform?
They're essentially identical to L39s and Envoys - there is no discernible difference in performance between the Enfield hammer forged barrel (L39/L42/Envoy) and the chordal turned barrel of the Enforcer. The Enforcer barrel was intended to be optimised for short- to mid-range (up to 600 yds) but seems adequate for long range.
I've had eight or nine Enforcers, and still have three. I've shot them at 1000 & 1200 (Bisley Stickledown), on both optics and iron sights. (I rarely use the Pecar, as the eye relief makes it very difficult for most people to get a comfortable sight picture).
In accuracy testing, I find that all of the heavy-barrel Enfields work best with decent quality 144 gn NATO ball. 155 gn target ammo seems to give no improvement, except possibly at 1000 yds with variable wind direction (as you'd expect with a heavier bullet). Decent RG ammo gives about 1 moa at short to mid-range, out of a reasonable barrel. I've seen slightly better with Green Spot, Lapua Match and IMI Match .308.
I'd say that a decent Envoy probably has a slight edge over an Enforcer at all ranges. Best performance always comes using a single-point sling; the Harris bipod (on those rifles where one was fitted) seems to spread the group a little.
If you are buying one - caveat emptor. There are an increasing number of fakes around, some built with genuine wood and parts salvaged from scrapped Enforcers. Any properly-built "gunsmith" 7.62mm Enfield is pretty much identical in performance to a factory version; the difference is that the factory engraving makes the Enforcer five times more expensive than an identical clone...
Sorry i wasnt being much help with that last post !
Its awsomely accurate, out to a long way, the scope runs out of minutes at about 7/800 ish yards but i just aim off. Shot it at 1000 yards a few times and ran with the big dogs ( well hit the target) so thats pretty fair in my book! My friend was a Police "Rifleman" he said shots over 100yards were just not made . . . .To hi a miss rate He doesnt remember an Enforcer EVER being used in anger. . . well maybe a Deer or two !
I use mil surp ammo i got a big job load of RG and its good. My Enforcer is a very late one (high 600 number) If you find one make sure its real! I do know that no 2 are the same thou i have had 3 together, all different, so good luck on that one !
By the way i have new Enforcer woodwork . . .
I shoot mine in standard configuration (With pecar scope) and RAHS 3 rings
100 yd zero.
I use 144 grain Radway (difficult to find now).
You will get 600 yds of elevation from the scope and i was regularly getting
high 40 scores, with the iron sights you will get to 1000 but i think the 144gr
bullet is too unstable at that range, resulting in larger groups.
In short it's as good as any other 1970's -1980's target rifle.
Alan de Enfield posted some grouping pictures last year of his enfield
looked pretty tight.
Thanks for the very informative replies. I am glad to hear that these rifles are being given days out at the range, as a rifle that is not shot is essentially an expensive piece of pipe with extra fittings (but there are plenty of exceptions). I am aware of the issue of Enforcer fakes (there is always someone who wants to make money), and I will be careful in my search.
SO YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S CORNERED THE MARKET!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
I have a clone with the L42A1 barrel and all the bits regulated by Fultons and even today it will hold its own with some of the best around. It does seem to perform best from 500-600 yds and this with the original 5C sight.
rhodders
spinecracker, Later L42 production used the chordal barrel. In a business where range is always an issue, I certainly wouldn't expect performance to suffer compared to a standard rifled barrel in like condition...if this was the intent of your question.
Brad
I was doing my own research as best I could, but apart from 1 website (index.htm) that has not been updated for quite a long time and comments gleaned from this and other forums, there just isn't that much information out there. I have lots of questions, but I don't think the answers are out there any more. I know that at least 1 person is/was in the process of compiling information for a pamphlet regarding enforcers. Should I purchase an enforcer (and let's face it, they don't pop up on the market that often!), I would want to find out everything that I can about them, and maybe even add to the knowledge library here.
Another question (will I ever stop??) - does anyone have any idea where I could get instructions for the Pecar scope and the Parker Hale target sight? Perhaps the original manufacturers?
spinecracker, Part of the information problem WRT the Enforcers is the very low production (an unknown number were also destroyed) and varied equippage put the rifle into a niche collector's catagory.
Brad
That is why I like them - there might be plenty of information out there, but it is working out where to dig that is the problem. I wonder if the lack of information is, in part, responsible for keeping the prices low in comparison with, say, No.4T's?
I think there are a number of reasons for the enforcers not being so highly priced: They're not military, have never seen 'war' action (and no recorded, so far as we can tell, instances of them being used in anger by the police), and they're very similar to l39s envoys etc which are comparatively cheaper (by half). And, I suppose, they're a product of a rather tight budget conscious decision making process and some of their components (eg scope attachments) are a reflection of that.
On the other side they're pretty rare, were at least 'in service' and are a darn nice rifle.
...and I'm looking for one so feel free to pm me if you're in the uk and want to sell (I think I wish I'd gone for that one Alan De Enfield bought which I had the chance of getting!)
Heck, I'm in the US, and I think they are like hen's teeth (or my other favorite - rocking horse poo) over here, or at least they don't come on the market that often :)
Yes - I'm in the process of compiling information and documents with a view to writing a book(let) on the Enforcer - the enigmatic rifle with so little known about it, as has been said, this is probably due to only 767 made and 50%+ destroyed there are so few opportunities to study them, let alone own one or two (- except for thunderbox of course who has over 1% of the total production figure and 2% of those thought to survive)
Enforcers were issued in various states of 'completness' which seemed to depend on the budget the local Police authority had left, they were supplied with and without bipods, with and without PH sights and with and without scopes. From information gleaned from Police armourers it seems that when the 'next years' budget came in, that they may have been allowed to buy the 'extras', which is why some Enforcers end up with very strange brands of scopes.
I have received information back from several of the Police Authority Areas (under the Freedom of Information Act) confirming that their rifles were (due to force policy of not allowing civilians to get hold of firearms) guillotined. What a way to die. !!!
Pecar went out of business 18 months / 2 years ago but I heard they'd actually been 'rescued' by another German scope company (Schmidt & Bender ??)
The PH company is also 'long gone' but there is all sorts of info out there, not only documents on the web, but user experience. There is also a company in the UK I know that bought up all the dustbins full of PH sight parts (when PH closed down) they are getting a bit low now but they've never let me down yet.
As stated above, not all Enforcers were fitted with the rear sight ( and those that didnt have it fitted had the 'wrong' type of safety fitted so you couldnt fit the correct rear sight unless you could also find the correct safety. (Rocking Horse Poo again !!)) The correct rear sight is a PH5E/4
Picture shows the modified safety. A normal safety would 'foul' the sight mounting bracket and if the sight was mounted after the safety you could'nt put it into 'safe'. I found all this out when I built my clone and could'nt get 'safe'.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nf_28429-1.jpg
1980 Iranian embassy siege. Enforcer in use. But we dont know if the trigger was pulled.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinzEugen
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Enforcer-1.jpg
Alan De Enfield is my new bestest pal of all time :)
Double Post - sorry !!!
The Pecar "Museum" and data.
Eagle Hurst Sporting | Pecar Berlin
Regards, Alan
Good points, PrinzEugen, and yet you still want one - just like me lol. Maybe it is the name - it might not have been so popular if it were called the "escaped livestock eliminator" :P I have been trying to find out how enforcers fair on the North American gun market (how much they sell for, how often they sell, etc), but I have found almost nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinzEugen
I did find an interesting website regarding Parker Hale sights, for those who might be interested and don't know about it -
Service and TArget Rifle Sights ~ Parker-Hale and B.S.A.
I have had Enforcer No 208 for nearly 20 years. I bought it from The London Armoury on the Comercial Rd, in East London they had a full rack of them at the time. I went in to buy an Envoy but these were half the price. Also owned No150 in the past as well.
Glad to see 208 is being looked after well. Simon, any idea where 150 ended up?
It was sold to one to one of our club members who lived in Maidstone kent.
When I purchased 150 it had correct PH sights, but was minus scope, harris bipod & stud.
When I eventually sold 150 it had been fitted with a new harris bipod & stud, but still had the original PH target sights
The Base Workshop accuracy criteria for the L39 was this:
Field Workshop: Five warming shots will be fired. Followed by a group of 5 rounds. These will be fired from the shoulder over suitable cover from 30 metres and the group size will fall within a circle 1" in diameter
Base Workshops: Pretty well as above but fired from an Enfiield rest and '...the group must fall within a circle of 3/4" diameter.
Note that this is the L39 and you must expect the more highly trained Police 'snipers' to achieve better results than this!
I had noted Alan de Enfield's post ("happy enforcer" thread, I think) showing that Enforcer 134 was capable of a 1/2" grouping with 3 shots at 100 yards(don't you just love to see overlapping holes on a target?). We need (ok, I would like) a full range report from a current Enforcer owner at different ranges and with different loads - future project for someone, maybe me if I ever manage to get my grubby little hands on one? I do have hundreds of miles of desert to shoot in, and I have been invited coyote hunting (which would be appropriate seeming that most, if not all, Enforcer "kills" were animals....e.g the occasional escaped bull - anyone know differently?).
Peter, I would have thought that the guys at the field and base workshops who did the accuracy testing would have ended up as pretty good shots themselves with all that practice. If it hadn't been for a tiny slip of fate, that could have included me lol (ended up in the RAMC for some strange reason I have never been able to work out).
I used to take my young son to shoot and sero in the big calibre rifles and he became very good with L42''s and L39's
Heck, I want a dad like you lol. I wanted to use mine as a target, but that is a different story :P