Irwin Pedersen Questions

in war baby it says on page 159
"at the time or the termination of the irwin-pedersen contract,3542 carbines had been assembled but none had been accepted"

OK, now i read that chapter a few times,and i have a few questions
1. where did ruth come up with that number?
2. is this the ammount of carbines made with receivers stamped"irwin-Pedersen "
3. his number seems to be completed carbines, what about good receivers that were never fully assembled that were asssembled at S'G'?
4. Who has an IP?
send me a PM with info on yours so i can ad it to my data on IP's

i think there were more than that, maybe double his number.......
what are your thoughts?

1. Ordnance document
2. no
3. Saginaw made carbines with them
4. me/several

You should read the latest Carbine Club Newsletter.

"War Baby Comes Home", he points out that as many as 32,000 IP marked receivers may have survived. And he further states that IP are far from being the rarest carbines.

i never got too far into war baby comes home, i will start reading more
thing i dont care for too much about the two books are that there is no real type of index to look up spacific things

I don't have my copy of War Baby! with me here at work but I could have sworn the number of IP marked receivers numbered around 50,000. Going to have to dig around for that info when I get home . . . :confused:

to expect Ruth to find each interesting point and show a person the way to find it is silly. The books speak for themselves; they are a lifetime's work and a very good read as well. The first step to understanding the books is to read them, repeatedly and form the index in your head. I find them very entertaining as an open and read book as well. Ruth's works are far superior to anything else on the subject.

I Thought Commercial Controls Would Be The Rarest???

Good point Warren. Has anyone actually seen a Commercial Controls carbine? I've never even seen a photo of one.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

to expect Ruth to find each interesting point and show a person the way to find it is silly. The books speak for themselves; they are a lifetime's work and a very good read as well. The first step to understanding the books is to read them, repeatedly and form the index in your head. I find them very entertaining as an open and read book as well. Ruth's works are far superior to anything else on the subject.

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I can't agree more Dave :thup: Every time I read War Baby! I notice something else that previously escaped my attention, especially when I acquire a "new" carbine of a manufacturer I didn't already own and study up on it. It is way ahead of any other M1 Carbine reference books available although it seems that the carbine collecting community has learned a lot more in the past few years light of all the carbines that have been released by the CMP in that time, especially the Bavarians. It would be nice to see War Baby! get an update with the newest data included.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

"War Baby Comes Home", he points out that as many as 32,000 IP marked receivers may have survived. And he further states that IP are far from being the rarest carbines.

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I've looked in my copy of War Baby! for the reference to the 50,000 IP receivers I thought I saw mentioned there but couldn't find it. I own about every major M1Carbine reference book printed, just my luck I may have seen it in Harrison's :thdown: I'll have to look through War Baby Comes Home next to find that 32,000 figure you mentioned, Dave but in any case I believe whatever number of IP receiver carbines were accepted by the US government are included in the total of 223,620 that S'G' was credited with having produced.

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Originally Posted by BrianQ

1. Ordnance document
2. no
3. Saginaw made carbines with them
4. me/several

You should read the latest Carbine Club Newsletter.

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i sent in my money in november, they never cashed my check or sent me the newest newsletter
:banghead:

phillydude,

Unfortunately I had the same sort of experience when I tried to join a few years ago. I know they're a small group of volunteers so problems and mistakes happen. I've been thinking of trying to join again because of all the good things I hear, but your experience doesn't sound very positive.

Roger got back to me today,I just have to resubmit another check, no big deal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cafdfw

phillydude,

Unfortunately I had the same sort of experience when I tried to join a few years ago. I know they're a small group of volunteers so problems and mistakes happen. I've been thinking of trying to join again because of all the good things I hear, but your experience doesn't sound very positive.

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Not sure what the cause is, but stuff does happen both human errors and postal errors. All I can say is there is a wealth of carbine information coming out these days and the Jan. newsletter is nothing short of just awesome. This kind of information is not available anywhere else. The CC club does require participation in reporting data, and is one of the many reasons their information can't be beat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WARREN CONNELLEY

I Thought Commercial Controls Would Be The Rarest???

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I'm not sure when the production ended, but Commercial Controls was NPM up into around 1944.

April 26,1944 National Postal Meter become Commercial Controls. BUT the CCC marked carbines ( IF there is such a thing) were not made during the contract time frame and would have been made in May 1944.

Fulton Armory makes reference to the CCC marked carbine.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1Carbine.htm

Who has an I. P. ? Me !. I agree with Brian Q, refer to, or become a member of the Carbine Club for the latest info. Cheers, Mikey 51.

I've looked in my copy of War Baby! for the reference to the 50,000 IP receivers I thought I saw mentioned there but couldn't find it. I own about every major M1Carbine reference book printed, just my luck I may have seen it in Harrison's I'll have to look through War Baby Comes Home next to find that 32,000 figure you mentioned, Dave but in any case I believe whatever number of IP receiver carbines were accepted by the US government are included in the total of 223,620 that S'G' was credited with having produced.
__________________
Charlie



only one i found that said there were 50k receivers made was in j.C. Harrison's book......i know there are some inaccurate parts to this book, why does everyone rip it to no end? i think its pretty good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phillydude

I've looked in my copy of War Baby! for the reference to the 50,000 IP receivers I thought I saw mentioned there but couldn't find it. I own about every major M1Carbine reference book printed, just my luck I may have seen it in Harrison's I'll have to look through War Baby Comes Home next to find that 32,000 figure you mentioned, Dave but in any case I believe whatever number of IP receiver carbines were accepted by the US government are included in the total of 223,620 that S'G' was credited with having produced.
__________________
Charlie


only one i found that said there were 50k receivers made was in j.C. Harrison's book......i know there are some inaccurate parts to this book, why does everyone rip it to no end? i think its pretty good

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Thanks, phillydude. There is some obviously contradictory info in J.C. Harrison's M1 Carbine book, as well as the M1 Garand version but one cannot overlook that Harrison saw many of both and was putting forth his best effort with what was known at the time. One shouldn't reject either book out of hand just because a few inaccuracies because some faults can be found in other's reference books. I own both Harrison books and as well as books by Riesch, Canfield, Duff, Ruth, and others that I refer to collectively, although Larry Ruth's work is considered by many to be the most definitive. As DaveHH pointed out earlier, Ruth did mention some 32,000 IP receivers in War Baby Comes Home. I guess the point I was trying to make is that although IP receiver carbines are very scarce there were tens of thousands assembled, qualified and shipped to the US Gov't by S'G' and these are part of the total of 123,620 M1 Carbines that are attributed to production of the Grand Rapids manufacturing facility.

The reason is that there are huge numbers of errors in it. He wouldn't even correct problems that the documentation was sent to him about. For instance, the RI/3 marked M1A1 stocks are post WWII according to him. But he was given the info that the stocks are WWII production made by J. S. Richardson Inc. But he refused to change it in his last edition believing HE was right and nobody was going to change his mind! I hate to speak ill of the dead, but that attitude and his refusal to correct mistakes with documented info is why we disparage the contents of the book. Aside from that, all carbines are transitional. There is no such thing as model of such and such a year. It would take a whole new book just to list the errors.

absolutly understood , thanks........maybe someone will make a new one with ALL of the correct data

phillydude,

Some reliable info from another thread most likely confirms WAR BABY III is in the works! :super:
I've heard rumors for a while, but it sounds as if it's true.

(Second post on this page from 'Sleeplessnashadow')

Bavarian Carbines -- Intro?? - Page 2 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

I'm really looking forward to it's release, as are many. I know it may be a while before it's ready. From the quality of the first two volumes, I'm sure Mr. Ruth is doing careful research, which takes time.

~ Harlan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cafdfw

phillydude,

Some reliable info from another thread most likely confirms WAR BABY III is in the works! :super:
I've heard rumors for a while, but it sounds as if it's true.

(Second post on this page from 'Sleeplessnashadow')

Bavarian Carbines -- Intro?? - Page 2 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

I'm really looking forward to it's release, as are many. I know it may be a while before it's ready. From the quality of the first two volumes, I'm sure Mr. Ruth is doing careful research, which takes time.

~ Harlan

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I'm drooling already, Harlan! A lot of new info on M1 carbines has surfaced in recent years and if anyone can tie it all together, it's Larry Ruth. :super:

My primary use for this book is pages 171 to the end....

"Index of Military Markings"

Very helpful for all the abbreviations and initials applied to military items...

Jim

Jim, use that index cautiously though. There are some errors there too.