Civil War Muskets Used By Vermont Volunteers

I am turning to the net for help in gaining a better understanding of the muskets that would have been used by Vermont volunteers in the latter stages of the Civil War... 1864 through the end of the war in 1865. My research to date has turned up much contradictory evidence.

My great-great grandfather was a member of Company B, 17th Vermont Infantry. Records conflict on exactly when he was mustered in. In his military records, the length of service stated conflicts with the date he was supposedly mustered in... which, in turn, conflicts with official records for Company B. Nonetheless, it's clear that he had to have been mustered in sometime between 1863 and 1865... perhaps having served in a different regiment originally. We just don't know.

Nonetheless, I am determined to understand which muskets were likely to have been used by members of Company B, 17th Vermont Infantry in 1864 and 1865. Beyond likely models and possible contract manufacturers (and I do appreciate that there may have been many variations), I'd like to know if there are specific markings I should look for in order to determine if particular muskets were, in fact, purchased for or issued to Vermont volunteers.

Any and all help greatly appreciated. Thank you.

CLMN

Have you invested any time in the Vermont state library and archives? Mass is not far from Montpelier.

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Originally Posted by Maple_Leaf_Eh

Have you invested any time in the Vermont state library and archives? Mass is not far from Montpelier.

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It is not that far from Massachusetts... and we have. Results to date have certainly been interesting but not yet satisfactory or specific enough for my purposes. It is a cumbersome undertaking... time-consuming, frustrating and expensive too. Some information is very easy to get from the VT state archives... other information seems to take an act of God. The information we want may not even exist any longer. We are tentatively planning another 4-day trip up there in the spring to continue our research.

Your point is well taken that official, archival information is almost always better than secondary sources and anecdotal information. There is lots of information available about the use of Enfield muskets and Springfield 1861 muskets by earlier VT volunteers. There is information suggesting that some (unknown number) of the 1861 pattern muskets were contract muskets... some likely to have been "1861 special" contract muskets.

But my question focuses specifically on the end of the war... 1864 and 1865. It's been suggested by some "experts" that Springfield 1863 Type I or Type II muskets would have been available and issued to/used by late-enlisting VT volunteers. Other "experts" (historians/dealers/collectors/etc.) have insisted that Springfield (or contract) 1861's, new or "recycled", would still have been available and that the notion of Springfield 1863 Type I or Type II muskets ending up in VT volunteer hands at that point in the war was highly unlikely.

For each expert opinion I have received, I seem to have found a contradictory opinion or evidence. Keeping an open mind about other possibilities, this is the main question.

CLMN

have you tried getting a hold of some of these pictures of the 17th soldiers and seeing if you can ID the weapons?

http://vermontcivilwar.org/units/17/picx.php

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Originally Posted by Amatikulu

have you tried getting a hold of some of these pictures of the 17th soldiers and seeing if you can ID the weapons?

http://vermontcivilwar.org/units/17/picx.php

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It's a great idea conceptually, but there are very few period photographs I could find that show these VT volunteers with their muskets... and the few that I did manage to find show a strange mix of weapons making me question the historical accuracy of the photographs, at least in regard to officially issued weapons.

One notable exception (complete with story) is here: Springfield Armory National Historic Site - A Springfield Rifle-Musket (U.S. National Park Service)

Even if I could find more such photographs in high enough resolution, I am probably not good enough to differentiate with any reasonable accuracy between a Springfield Model 1861, 1863 Type I or 1863 Type II.

CLMN

Concerning period photographs done in studio, the weapons shown in pictures were as often as not the property of the photographer and usually have no relevancy to what the soldier actually carried.

To find what rifle musket your ancestor carried, see if you can locate the ordnance records for his regiment, it's possible that they still exist, many do but they are not always too specific. He could have carried any of several rifle muskets in the late war period - a P53 British or US M1861, even a M1863. However, since he seems to have served near the end of the War, it is most likely he was issued the standard M1861 rifle musket, the most common weapon of the War. Had he been a "Regular" (US Army) soldier instead of a state soldier his likely weapon at the War's end would have been the far less common M1863 Type I. Personally, my best guess? I say he likely carried an 1861 Rifle Musket made at Springfield or one of the many contractors. It's your safest bet.

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Originally Posted by gew8805

Concerning period photographs done in studio, the weapons shown in pictures were as often as not the property of the photographer and usually have no relevancy to what the soldier actually carried.

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Understood... a very good point.

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Originally Posted by gew8805

To find what rifle musket your ancestor carried, see if you can locate the ordnance records for his regiment, it's possible that they still exist, many do but they are not always too specific. He could have carried any of several rifle muskets in the late war period - a P53 British or US M1861, even a M1863. However, since he seems to have served near the end of the War, it is most likely he was issued the standard M1861 rifle musket, the most common weapon of the War. Had he been a "Regular" (US Army) soldier instead of a state soldier his likely weapon at the War's end would have been the far less common M1863 Type I. Personally, my best guess? I say he likely carried an 1861 Rifle Musket made at Springfield or one of the many contractors. It's your safest bet.

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Thanks for your input. Your analysis and logic are consistent with a number of expert opinions I have received. Most think it is very doubtful (yet still possible) that he would have been issued an Enfield. Further, your opinion that regular forces would have been issued the newer Springfield 1863s while state volunteers would have continued to receive contract 1861s in that late stage of the Civil War is also a popularly held belief.

CLMN

Also keep in mind that the M1861 was well supported by the supply system of both armies. Plenty of spare parts. The same was not true of the '63 which was new and while some parts were interchangeable with the '61 (buttplates, triggerguards, some lock parts), problems caused by heavy use could develop that would put arms out of service in a short time.

Actually, the M1863 Rifle Musket was never the front line weapon it was intended to be, many, if not most, were pulled out of storage in as new condition almost immediately after the War and converted to Allen patent breach loading arms, the predecessor to the Trapdoor Springfield. After the M1873 Trapdoor came into service, many of the '63s were surplussed on the civilian market and some were even sold to France for use in the Franco-Prussian War of 1871. They didn't make it in time and were confiscated by the Germans and sold on the open market through German retail and wholesale outfits in a fashion similar to the way Bannerman's did in this country. The M1861 is your best bet.

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Originally Posted by gew8805

Also keep in mind that the M1861 was well supported by the supply system of both armies. Plenty of spare parts. The same was not true of the '63 which was new and while some parts were interchangeable with the '61 (buttplates, triggerguards, some lock parts), problems caused by heavy use could develop that would put arms out of service in a short time.

Actually, the M1863 Rifle Musket was never the front line weapon it was intended to be, many, if not most, were pulled out of storage in as new condition almost immediately after the War and converted to Allen patent breach loading arms, the predecessor to the Trapdoor Springfield. After the M1873 Trapdoor came into service, many of the '63s were surplussed on the civilian market and some were even sold to France for use in the Franco-Prussian War of 1871. They didn't make it in time and were confiscated by the Germans and sold on the open market through German retail and wholesale outfits in a fashion similar to the way Bannerman's did in this country. The M1861 is your best bet.

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Once again, your recollection of period history... as far as I am aware of on this side of the Atlantic... is right on the money! Experts who support the 1861 position (in answer to my inquiry) point to these facts as the best logical reasoning, in absence of hard evidence to the contrary, that VT volunteers of that late timeframe would most likely still have been issued contract 1861s.

And yet other experts of seemingly equal standing have insisted that the very same set of facts re: the 1863 Springfield muskets points to the distinct possibility that 1863s were very possibly ending up in the hands of certain state volunteer forces very late in the war. In effect, they are saying that the supply and availability of the genuine Springfield article would have trumped the availability of the contract 1861s... in that very late timeframe... and, in particular, re: the VT volunteers.

CLMN

Ah, but the fun part is, we will likely never know for sure. ;) Best bet is to find the 17th's Ordnance records, if they exist, and see if they can tell you anything. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by gew8805

Ah, but the fun part is, we will likely never know for sure. ;) Best bet is to find the 17th's Ordnance records, if they exist, and see if they can tell you anything. Good luck.

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Yep... it's looking more and more like that's going to be the only way to solve this mystery once and for all. Thanks very much for your input. :)

CLMN