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Appologies if this has come up before in a post.
As I had few minutes to kill in Maidstone I thought I would see if an exhibit was still on display in the museum that I had last seen yonks ago.
Here are a couple of poor pics (due to display lighting ;))
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/LESIDE-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/LECAP-1.jpg
KG
We have a well known and documented rifle at Warminster. On ours, the bullet didn't just broke the bolt, it absolutely destroyed it.
I wasn't there when it happened but I just happen to know what the bloke holding it said.............
Thanks for posting pics Kev ... :super:
That's freakin amazing ... :eek:
Regards,
Badger
7.92 bullet down a 7.7 bore! That must have been messy on the front end as well!
I believe this pretty much qualifies as "unbelievable-yet-real"... wow.
Lou
Its not in the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment Museum, is it?
I seem to recall there is one in the Imperial War Museum as well. The Hun bullet travelled up the SMLE barrel and came to a halt up against its unfired .303 cousin. That rifle is sectioned to show the two bullets nose-to-nose in the bore.
I bet he said: "Gee, gosh golly, shucks" eh Peter?
more like "Blimey!!":D
Yes it is, although at the time I didn't realise it was a museum 'inside' a museum.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
From memory seeing it as a lad I could have sworn the damage to the bolt was more severe but that was a while ago !
KG
Correct me if Im wrong but .303" is actually .312" which equates to 7.9248mm which is why some people use .308" bullets in .303" reloads.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Still a tight fit though!
Let's get Mythbusters to try this one out. :)
Why? We have the evidence - or do you like the idea of blowing up enfields?? lol
Well, sort of:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
"Proper" .303 bullets are mostly .311" diameter, sometimes .312". Barrel groove diameters, as per the original factory drawings, can run out to .318".
The results for running .308" projectiles in a real ".303" barrel are subject to a few variables:
If you try to shoot a boat tail .308" bullet in a mil spec .303, all you will do is destroy the throat of your barrel and punch embarrassing groups downrange.
A soft-jacketed flat-based projectile will work better, sometimes.
Open-based FMJ (not NATO boat-tails) will work better yet.
Original or clone Mk7 projectiles will work best.
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A little side-track on related issues for German barrels:
1888- 1890: .314" / .3215" ( This spec was quickly superseded due to barrel wear.)
1890- xxx .311" / .3215" ( "Standard Gewehr 88 rifling. )
1896-xxx. .311" / 323+" ( "Z" marked rifles. )
7.92 x 57 bullets are of 2 sizes. The original "J" bore used a .3180" .3188" diameter projectile in a .3215" groove barrel. This is a similar situation to .303 bullets and barrels.(.311" bullets, .313" - .318" groove diameter.)
In 1905 the Germans came up with their famous "spitzer" projectile. The new spec had a nominal bullet diameter of .323" with a barrel groove diameter of .323"+.
The "S" indicates that the chamber is correct (especially in neck diameter) for the loaded spitzer cartridge. The change from a heavy round-nosed projectile to a lighter spitzer bullet resulted in a considerable increase in freebore. The original throat was approx .667" whilst the spitzer requires only about .315".
Wasn't trying to stir up a bullet spec argument! I just was wondering how much muzzle and/or nosecap damage there was from the parts of the bullet that DIDN'T go down the spout. Maybe there's bits of jacket stuck in the seam betwixt the two. Just curious is all...
You can forget mythbusters and ammo facts, it actually happened and we have a named properly documented rifle with supportive paperwork to confirm it. Ours has nosecap damage too...........
I'll dig up the info and put it up but give me a bit of time
Did anybody read that the snipers were only 50 yards apart! Even I could toss a grenade that far!
From what I have read in other places, this wasn't uncommon for the distance
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tharifle-1.jpg
Long toss, but could you plant the grenade IN the trench (and w/o exposing yourself)? Don't think Jerry was trying for a "down the bore" hit, just something to remove the threat to his mates. If he was, then even at fifty yards that's mighty fine shooting. Only problem, its much easier to replace the rifle than a good combat shot, so the threat wasn't eliminated, just annoyed!
Here is another illustrated thread with keen comments and theories. With so many rounds fired rounds and so many combatants, there must be many other similar untold stories. My original post and inquiry for a study of battle damage on firearms and edged weapons has resulted in a wider range of replies than I anticipated. Keep it coming as it adds yet another dimension to our arms collections.
Ian Skennerton
Interesting thread. It seems most likely that the bullet was of the .318 variety rather then the .323 kind.
I believe there is a photo in the archive of this website of an Enfield which had been struck in the muzzle by a German bullet in WW1. The jacket remained protruding from the Enfield muzzle but the core traveled all the way down the bore and detonated the cartridge in the Enfield chamber, damaging the receiver and/or bolt.
Possibly an armor piercing round with a small diameter steel core?
Regards
Jim
I have original German bullets here which my great-uncle (Gordon Highlanders) sent back before he went MIA.
The older .318" 227-grain bullet is a round-nosed type with a mild-steel jacket.
The later S type is 154 grains, pointed with a flat base and bronze-jacketed.
NOT hard to tell apart.
I am just perfectly happy that I wasn't holding any of these rifles when they were struck.
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