Is this M1D Authentic?

I would like some opinions on its authenticity.

The only M1D rifles I've seen with serial numbers of the scope and receiver stamped on the stock were from Taiwan.

Another fellow mentioned that the Hong Kong Police did the same thing.

I've never seen it on a Dane M1D or the other US M1D I owned previously.

The rifle was originally built in 1943 and has the had the molten lead dip treatment.

All parts, including the barrel are SA, which is S-A 53. The only parts not SA are the trigger group. The bore is pristine.

I have no provenance or story to go with the rifle.

Have never seen a staking on the attachment knob like that

Hinge pin on the mount - the ends should be rounded - can not tell

If the T37 has a casting ridge around the clearance for the cylinder lock screw then it is a fake T-37

a D barrel will have a 555 in the drawing number

the 6-53 on the pad looks odd - like it was hand drawn

Are there any marks on the receiver leg?

Many will not value a undocumented M1D

Just has the look of a modern re-creation. My M1D came out of Canada 20 years ago. It looks nothing like the one in question.

This M1D is in Canada. M1Ds are very scarce in Canada
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The stamps on the cheek pad are definitely stamped, not drawn.

No casting ridge around the clearance for the lock screw

There is no 555 in the drawing number. I'm a little surprised at this one, I was under the impression that M1Ds were assembled from regular run of the mill rifles that had proven to be extraordinarily accurate, much like the British No4 T.

I will take a few more pics and see if I can impose on Badger to post more.

More pics ..... :)

The barrel drawing number ending in 555 should be UNDER the rear handguard on top of the barrel. It appears your scope mount does have rounded ends on the hinge pin so I would say it is genuine USGI. Without paperwork to substantiate the rifle you will always be told it is worth the value of the parts. It could be a genuine USGI M1D but without definitive paperwork to prove it you have what must be assumed to be a parts rifle.

I can understand where your coming from mollydodger but in Canada we don't have the benefit of CMP. I'm very surprised that there isn't a lot more interest or knowledge about M1D rifles than seems to be available on the web.
To rely on CMP provenance is OK but it certainly leaves a lot to be desired. The US either loaned, leased or sold M1D rifles all over the world, including Canada, Denmark, England, Hong Kong, Korea, Viet Nam, Thailand, Taiwan, Norway, etc. Some of these nations, like Canada, just kept them in storage and other than to play with a few of them, never used them. Most went to Denmark in the mid fifties in a large sale. To nullify their existence by only accepting CMP provenance is like cutting off you nose to spite your face.

I guess you have a lot of rifles made up from parts in the US and it makes sense that it happens, given the availability of parts and the "mystique" of owning a sniper. It's to bad that the practise is so wide spread as to have an entire country rejecting the other rifles, just because they don't have CMP provenance. In other countries, the parts availability to make up these fakes is almost, if not nil.

I have a Danish M1D. It has the Berretta FKF receiver, bolt and trigger group. Barrel is SA555 and as new. M84 is Danish crown marked. Wood is GI. flash hider GI. Pad GI. OriginalM1D rifle receiver could not be imported due to lend lease regs.. so It came back all apart as a kit. I built it and it's not for sale. There are no original Danish issue M1D that I have seen. if I need a sniper, I'll use my M76 Zastava in 7.92. The best I have used. Gary

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

I can understand where your coming from mollydodger but in Canada we don't have the benefit of CMP. I'm very surprised that there isn't a lot more interest or knowledge about M1D rifles than seems to be available on the web.
To rely on CMP provenance is OK but it certainly leaves a lot to be desired. The US either loaned, leased or sold M1D rifles all over the world, including Canada, Denmark, England, Hong Kong, Korea, Viet Nam, Thailand, Taiwan, Norway, etc. Some of these nations, like Canada, just kept them in storage and other than to play with a few of them, never used them. Most went to Denmark in the mid fifties in a large sale. To nullify their existence by only accepting CMP provenance is like cutting off you nose to spite your face.

I guess you have a lot of rifles made up from parts in the US and it makes sense that it happens, given the availability of parts and the "mystique" of owning a sniper. It's to bad that the practise is so wide spread as to have an entire country rejecting the other rifles, just because they don't have CMP provenance. In other countries, the parts availability to make up these fakes is almost, if not nil.

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All M1D's are "made up from parts". The provenance is only to prove who put the parts together. The CMP/DCM is the best, if not only, documented way to prove it was done at a U.S. arsenal.

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Originally Posted by arado

I have a Danish M1D. It has the Berretta KFK receiver, bolt and trigger group. Barrel is SA555 and as new. M84 is Danish crown marked. Wood is GI. flash hider GI. Pad GI. OriginalM1D rifle receiver could not be imported due to lend lease regs.. so It came back all apart as a kit. I built it and it's not for sale. There are no original Danish issue M1D that I have seen. if I need a sniper, I'll use my M76 Zastava in 7.92. The best I have used. Gary

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Arado, I have a complete, original issue Danish M1-D... They do exist...

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Originally Posted by Phrogpilot

Arado, I have a complete, original issue Danish M1-D... They do exist...

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WOW.. News to me. How did it get here? Any idea? Thanks, Gary

Yup, the last M1D I had, came from Denmark. It had a green sticker on the rear of the receiver denoting Danish issue/property. It was also a Springfield. Those Danes were shipped to Canada in 1980 to International Firearms in Montreal. They are now Century International in the US. Many of them were broken up for "parts kits".
There were some others that came into Canada about 1996. Lever Arms had a half dozen. I think they were from of the Hong Kong. I don't really remember though so they could have come from any where.

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

Yup, the last M1D I had, came from Denmark. It had a green sticker on the rear of the receiver denoting Danish issue/property. It was also a Springfield. Those Danes were shipped to Canada in 1980 to International Firearms in Montreal. They are now Century International in the US. Many of them were broken up for "parts kits".
There were some others that came into Canada about 1996. Lever Arms had a half dozen. I think they were from of the Hong Kong. I don't really remember though so they could have come from any where.

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WOW... What would we do without Canada? in the past my source for exoctica. Never did find an Argentine SAFN in 7.65. however. Thanks, Gary

I have a large amount of those tags for these M1D's that were sent back if you would like me to see if your serial # is on the list? Rick B

Rick, I would really appreciate that. The serial number on my rifle is 1367615.

I have a nice ex-Danish M1D which was among the Lever imports to Canada in the late 1990s. I bought it from MILARM in Edmonton for $800 in 1998. Rifle is strictly USGI, incl stock cartouches,correct barrel and Hart flash hider. It was never drilled for the cheek pad. The unique Danish identifiers are the FKF/crown and inventory # on the M84 scope as well as the rifle's s/n which is stamped on the upper surface of the stock to the rear of the windage knob. This is a deviation from the normal Danish practice of stamping the s/n on the ventral surface of the butt ahead of the sling swivel.

Thanks for all of the replies. I really do appreciate them all. More information, the better.

I have asked Badger to post a few more pics for me. One is of the number stamped into the barrel. The other is of the number on the trigger group. It turns out that the only mismatched part is the milled trigger guard. which is WRA, all of the rest are SA.

There are no Danish acceptance marks or ID marks anywhere on the rifle.

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

Rick, I would really appreciate that. The serial number on my rifle is 1367615.

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Not on this list. Here are the ones I have in that range. Rick B



1346892 Excellent 3 Field OK Ok Adjusted Op Rod
1362623 Excellent 2 NoGo OK Ok-No No sling, Adjusted Op Rod
1362274 Very good 3 NoGo OK Ok Rebuilt bolt Follower, firing pin, extractor / spring assy, ejector spring

These are pics of the stamp on the barrel.

The numbers end in 555.

Oh, the only thing about the rifle that some may find incorrect is the milled trigger guard, which is made by WRA.

Thanks Badger, I really apreciate your patience with us computer illiterate old farts.

One other thing, even though it doesn't show up well on the pic, there is an "M" stamp about a 1/2inch to the right of the drawing number.

Thanks for looking Rick B. Much appreciated.

A WRA trigger housing would be correct for an original M1D. M1Ds were not newly manufactured rifles but were assembled in US Ordnance facilities from any US made Garand parts on hand,with the obvious exception of the unique M1D barrels,handguards,and scope mounts.

I have an M1D I bought in Vancouver about 22 or so years ago, not from Levers but from a shop that is no more. Story was that it had belonged to a Filipino miltary officer. I never put much credence to the story but the price was right and I like Garands. It came with cheek pad. If I get my son to post some pics, what would be of interest?

Any information we can get is of interest. One word of caution though, be careful of a story when buying a firearm, buy the rifle, not the story.
That's why I'm trying to find out if the rifle I've posted pics of is authentic.

M1D rifles have been copied big time and the reproduction parts to do a conversion are available on a couple of sites, including M84 scope, bracket, hand guard, base and cheek rest, for less than $600US.

It's understandable then when people are skeptical. I've seen dozens of M1D rifles at Lever Arms and a bunch more that were broken up for parts in Montreal at International Firearms. After Lever and a couple of other buyers grabbed what they wanted, the rest were torn down for parts to ship into the US.

The rifles I saw there came from Holland, Denmark, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Some had distinguishing tags, stickers, crests or other stamps, most were as purchased or lend leased. Some had obvious accessories, still intact, like cheek pads and slings or both types of flash eliminators but most were plain and the accessories had either been stripped off or from the looks of things, never attached.

I cried when I heard they were going to be torn down for parts. The parts were worth twice as much in the US as they could get for a complete rifle in Canada. International did much of their work on site or had it farmed out to locals.

I saw those NORWEGIAN M1D's at CenturyInternational's Ste Laurent Quebec Warehouse a few days after they arrived in early 1980.
Manny W the General Manager was showing me around before we went out for lunch and told me that they had bought them at a Norwegian Gov't AUCTION(sealed bids) and they were still in the ORIGINAL SPRINGFIELD ARSENAL CRATES complete with the NATO US Flag and hands stickers etc as well as the NSN and NATO 1005-xxxx etc stock numbers.
You got the RIFLE,web sling,yellow capped clear plastic oiler thong kit and M2 flash hider(mostly "Heavy" Harts with the odd SA)as well as the ORIGINAL MRT 3-52 leather cheek rest.
Grease proof greyish/greenish coloured sticker in Norwegian right in front of your eye below the lip of the receiver heels.I took it off and binned it.
Manny wasn't happy because Mike Kokin of Sherwood Int'l in Northridge had outbid Century for the scopes,mounts and web cases for them so they were selling the rifles without the scopes.
I paid $395(less 20 pct) for mine and bought a scope from Mike Kokin in 1983.Still have the rifle but sold the scope and mount when I was able to replace it with a DCM Sale ONE INCH Weaver K4-60B in 1989.I really dislike the M84 scopes but the Weavers are very much okay.
My rifle is a SA with a receiver in the 2.5 million range and all of those Century Rifles were RIGHTEOUS with the crates ALL STENCILLED US Rifle Cal.30 M1D(Sniper's) or whatever it was.
Would be nice to see a few more.JR

I remember the Norwegian M1Ds as well. There were also several pallets of well used M1 rifles and M1 carbines there at the same time. they were stacked like cord wood criss cross on the pallets and about 10 deep. They had definitely seen some rough service but looked better than the recent imports a few years ago.

About the same time, the Hong Kong examples showed up.

I haven't seen Manny or that big guy that was in charge of the warehouse, since they closed their doors in Canada. Do you know what became of them?

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

I remember the Norwegian M1Ds as well. There were also several pallets of well used M1 rifles and M1 carbines there at the same time. they were stacked like cord wood criss cross on the pallets and about 10 deep. They had definitely seen some rough service but looked better than the recent imports a few years ago.

About the same time, the Hong Kong examples showed up.

I haven't seen Manny or that big guy that was in charge of the warehouse, since they closed their doors in Canada. Do you know what became of them?

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Manny died around 2000 and if it's Tony Tornyi(the Hungarian) you mean he and his son own TRADEX.
I knew Manny and Bill Sucher from age 15 and spent more time at 1011 Bleury the original shop, than I did in classes during my first two years in Meds at McGill.
ALL the Norwegian M1D's were unissued since conversion to M1D status and the crates were the originals from Springfield Armory.That's why I always laugh at this BS that ONLY a CMP M1D is a REAL M1D.I should have asked Manny for one of the original crates because the contents therof were clearly stencilled on them.Some of the Israeli M1Ds were quite nice but a lot of the rest including the Danish issue ones were not all that great.
Denmark ALSO had M1C's and I often wonder WHO stole them.Was it the guys at TOPMARK in Denmark or the guys who went there from the CMP helping themselves AGAIN to all the "good stuff". A few bits were still left in the crates of parts etc that Alan Lever got in at the end and M1C parts were also listed on the manifests but had been stolen."VERRY INTERESTING" as the man said.JR

Well there you go, It's to bad about Manny, I liked him. A real stand up gentleman. And yes the big guy with the mustache was named Tony and had an accent. I was just talking to him on the phone the other day and thinking " I know that voice". I will make sure to say HI next time. He probably won't remember me though.

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Originally Posted by mollydodger

The barrel drawing number ending in 555 should be UNDER the rear handguard on top of the barrel. It appears your scope mount does have rounded ends on the hinge pin so I would say it is genuine USGI. Without paperwork to substantiate the rifle you will always be told it is worth the value of the parts. It could be a genuine USGI M1D but without definitive paperwork to prove it you have what must be assumed to be a parts rifle.

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The earlier M1C and some very early M1D's(SA) had the drawing number on the top of the barrel under the handguard, Most of the M1D's had the number on the side of the barrel, you could see it when you locked the bolt back. The correct number is: D7312555 MD 34 SA month year. This is the barrel on my M1D.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/01714-1.jpg

And the stock. A correct stock is normally marked like this.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/00636-1.jpg
Cheeck pad holes.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/00930-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/01024-1.jpg

I also feel that there is a few different types of M1D. Original, Authentic, and just plain fake.

My M1D's Barrel is marked as follows:
Barrel – Under rear hand guard app. 3.5 inches in front of receiver ring (12 o’clock)
Drawing Number D7312555 A178B

Symbol - Ordnance Escutcheon (crossed cannons encircled by belt) M M


Barrel Date: at 3 o’clock viewed from chamber (viewable with bolt retracted)

S-A – 10-52

Letter “P” lying on its side

My understanding is that the M1D Barrel Assembly (D7312555 bbl w/ scope base) was marked in the majority of cases at 12 O'clock under the rear handguard.

Regards,

Jim

Thanks Jim, mine is marked at the 12:00 position, under the rear hand guard.

Well, from what I can gather, all of the ducks are where they should be and won't feel bad when I show it to my buddies and say I'm 95% certain it's original and authentic.

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

My M1D's Barrel is marked as follows:
Barrel – Under rear hand guard app. 3.5 inches in front of receiver ring (12 o’clock)
Drawing Number D7312555 A178B

Symbol - Ordnance Escutcheon (crossed cannons encircled by belt) M M


Barrel Date: at 3 o’clock viewed from chamber (viewable with bolt retracted)

S-A – 10-52

Letter “P” lying on its side

My understanding is that the M1D Barrel Assembly (D7312555 bbl w/ scope base) was marked in the majority of cases at 12 O'clock under the rear handguard.

Regards,

Jim

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Thanks Jim, I appologize for presenting information that wasn't 100% correct. I thought most of the M1D's were marked on the side.:slap:
Here is a picture from Mr. Canfields book of a late Fall, early Winter dated barrel marked at 3:00 like mine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...59766812-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by GUTS

Thanks Jim, I appologize for presenting information that wasn't 100% correct. I thought most of the M1D's were marked on the side.:slap:
Here is a picture from Mr. Canfields book of a late Fall, early Winter dated barrel marked at 3:00 like mine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...59766812-1.jpg

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NP Guts, I misspoke as well. The M1d "Barrel" has a drawing no. of D7132555. The Barrel Assembly which includes the Barrel, Fixed Base(C7312541) and Pin(B7312545) is described under the over all drawing no. C7312553. This number appears in publications but is not stamped on weapons.

The caption in Mr. Canfield's book is not quite right. The leading character in an ordnance drawing number identifies only the size of the sheet of paper that the draftsman used - "A", "B", "C", "D" and so on. Ultimately the finished approved drawing will have to be filed somewhere. If you know the drawing number you will have an idea where to start looking (i.e. the "big cabinet" or the "little one").

Both the M1C components and the M1D components that are exclusive to the sniper rifles (scope mounts, cheekpad, handguard etc.) have drawings in the "731nnnn" series. Depending on the size of the item being drawn the leading letter can and does change.

It would have been simpler and more direct if Mr Canfield had simply said that Drawing number D7312555 is the number for an M1D barrel.

Since the M1C uses a regular M1 barrel its is covered by drawing number D35448.

Incidentally the core of the drawing numbers went on to become the basis of the stock numbers used for requistioning and supply purposes during WW2 until the migration to the NSN system.

Regards,

Jim

Thanks Jim, it's nice to communicate with knowledgeable people. I think that the zeal in my attempt to find out information on the M1D caused me to absorb without question some of the (mis)information I came across. I should know better than to spout facts I'm not sure about. I just recently purchased my M1D and today we finally plowed the road to our range so I may get to shoot it tommorow. I can't wait to ring the 1000yard gong.:)

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Originally Posted by John R.

I saw those NORWEGIAN M1D's at CenturyInternational's Ste Laurent Quebec Warehouse a few days after they arrived in early 1980.
Manny W the General Manager was showing me around before we went out for lunch and told me that they had bought them at a Norwegian Gov't AUCTION(sealed bids) and they were still in the ORIGINAL SPRINGFIELD ARSENAL CRATES complete with the NATO US Flag and hands stickers etc as well as the NSN and NATO 1005-xxxx etc stock numbers.
You got the RIFLE,web sling,yellow capped clear plastic oiler thong kit and M2 flash hider(mostly "Heavy" Harts with the odd SA)as well as the ORIGINAL MRT 3-52 leather cheek rest.
Grease proof greyish/greenish coloured sticker in Norwegian right in front of your eye below the lip of the receiver heels.I took it off and binned it.
Manny wasn't happy because Mike Kokin of Sherwood Int'l in Northridge had outbid Century for the scopes,mounts and web cases for them so they were selling the rifles without the scopes.
I paid $395(less 20 pct) for mine and bought a scope from Mike Kokin in 1983.Still have the rifle but sold the scope and mount when I was able to replace it with a DCM Sale ONE INCH Weaver K4-60B in 1989.I really dislike the M84 scopes but the Weavers are very much okay.
My rifle is a SA with a receiver in the 2.5 million range and all of those Century Rifles were RIGHTEOUS with the crates ALL STENCILLED US Rifle Cal.30 M1D(Sniper's) or whatever it was.
Would be nice to see a few more.JR

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Here are some pics of my Norwegian M1D. Enjoy.

It was purchased from the estate of the original owner who Purchased it from Lever Arms in Nov. Of 1981 (I have the bill of sale).


Norwegian M1D Photos by randonthoughts | Photobucket

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Originally Posted by John R.

Manny wasn't happy because Mike Kokin of Sherwood Int'l in Northridge had outbid Century for the scopes,mounts and web cases for them so they were selling the rifles without the scopes.

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I remember that John. All those rifles came in as new but without optics...

There were some Dan M1Ds ,scope marked with Danish crest. Here in the states CMP is the way to go for M1D. Won,t be long they will be sold out. Scott Duff FAQ: The M1D Sniper Rifle

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Originally Posted by jeep

There were some Dan M1Ds ,scope marked with Danish crest. Here in the states CMP is the way to go for M1D. Won,t be long they will be sold out. Scott Duff FAQ: The M1D Sniper Rifle

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Jeep is the link you posted a web page? If so what is it so I can find it please. Thanks

I have a 1944 M1D Garand Sniper Rifle (click here for photo montage) in my personal collection..

(Mfg by Springfield in March 1944)
c/w Dutch M84 (2.5x) Scope Serial # 25827

Re-barreled in June 1952 "SA-6-52" with
correct M1D sniper barrel "-D73112555 A155B-"

Regards,
Doug

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