M1 Barvarian question

This is my first post but i have lurked for a few months. and i want to thank all for the info i have gathered.

now my question...i ordered and received a Barvaria Rural Police Service Grade from CMP. well when i first got it i was a little let down by the fact that the US Carbine/.30 Cal M1 was ground off the front of the receiver. after speaking with an Armourer he told me i could send the gun back and he would do his best to find me a replacement. (there customer service is as good as i have read about)

so last night i was looking over the gun more closely and realized this Inlands receiver, trigger group, bolt, and both parts of the stock all have matching serial numbers. i couldnt find a barrel number but its from 10/44.

so my question is on a collecting level what trumps what? is it more desirable to have the numbers matching or should i take a chance on matching numbers to get a new gun where the receive wont be ground down. other than the ground receiver the gun fits my needs perfectly. but i just cant get over the aesthetics of the grinding.

in a perfect world i would just keep this one and order another but thats not the case now. :banghead:

thanks for the help.

I'd want one with the US markings........
I'd try returning it if it were mine, but that's just me.

JMO,
Charlie-painter777

I thought it was all "luck of the draw" with what we receive from the CMP? I didn't know we get "do overs" if we are not happy with the cosmetics.

dnikkor,
I'm not sure.
I've never ordered from CMP.

Charlie

Hi Charlie,
The CMP is pretty descriptive on the various grades of carbines and usually pretty accurate with what they deliver. I sure don't blame the OP with being disappointed with the grinding of the receiver. I would be too. A number of the Bavarians had different sights put on by the Germans and a number of people have received carbines with the same grind marks where the German sights were removed. Other than this obvious bummer, it sounds like he received a pretty nice carbine with mostly correctish parts and I am sure it otherwise would be a very good score.

We shouldn't expect the CMP to just eat these Bavarians that were re-sighted and if they fit the SG criteria, then such is life.

If somebody wants a true collectible carbine, then they should do what you probably do.....buy superior examples at usually a much higher price. The CMP is supplying mostly mix-master carbines with the intention of supplying carbines for people to shoot. They auction off the more valuable and rarer carbines and let the market determine the price. sometimes people are lucky and get a real collectible carbine at CMP SG prices. Sometimes they don't.

Through it all, they warn about The Luck of the Draw. It could not be a plainer warning and if there is not a safety or functionality problem with what they supply, people should really accept the cosmetic problems for what they are and if it is too ugly for them, they can always sell it to somebody who is more concerned about shooting and not collecting. And these marks are part of the carbine's history that so many are concerned about. After all, they are more than 65-years old.

Again, I sure don't blame the OP for being disappointed, but if everybody who received a Bavarian with the same marring issue insisted on returning them, the CMP would be stuck with a lot of carbines and fewer would be available for our pleasure. And where do you stop? I could easily find "disappointments" with all four of my CMP carbines, but instead I am happy to own these historic weapons. If I'm looking for perfection, those carbines are available, but rarely at CMP prices.

We gotta all remember that it is The Luck of the Draw. If people can't deal with that, then return the carbine and get your money back. We shouldn't expect the CMP to cherry pick a really nice carbine (like I believe they do for wailing customers) if the returned carbine truly fits their criteria for a SG or RG weapon. It just isn't fair to everybody else who does live by The Luck of the Draw.

Oh, and 67lemanster, welcome to the addiction and the forum. Sorry for your disappointment.

Hope I didn't rant too much. :bash:

67Lemanster, welcome. You can learn a bunch at this place. Thank you for your first post, and even more for a good question... One that I think I can at least partially answer.....
Bavarians... You may have noticed my several posts on what I received. Why did I bid on the six?? Each from a different political entity. Primarily for the history. I would not consider shooting any of them. Nor would I consider changing out any of the parts. Their condition, as received from the CMP is as much a part of their history as their original condition WAS. Having done a little research on Bavarians, I liked the different marks and treatments the Germans did on these weapons. In fact, one of my Bavarians had the receiver ground down much like yours. But still identifiable as "M 1 Carbine" It's just what the Germans did to them. Obviouly some moreso than others. It's their history now.
So I guess the question is, did you buy the rifle for the history, or for shooting? Or for both? If history, then what you have is certainly historical in the fact that as it is right now, its exactly as the CMP shipped it to you.
To me, as you describe the rifle, the matching numbers are really something to hope for in a Bavarian. They are NOT that common, I'm thinking. But I can also tell you that the CMP is, as you stated, very interested in satisfying it's customers. You can return your rifle for another "luck of the draw", but you very likely would NOT get one with the numbers matching. It would be a "crap shoot". A matching numbered Bavarian is most likely to be "as used by the Germans."
If you read my earlier threads on the Bavarians, you will note that in the last two, I allude to another "Bonus Bavarian" so to speak. It is a matching numbered rifle, but with an Erma barrel. When the G.I. barrels wore out, they replaced them with some fine high quality barrels, mfg by Erma on surplus G.I. machinery. To ME, this does not detract from the rifle's history, but adds to it. As it certifies it as Bavarian, and is not something faked.
As soon as I return from Louisville, I plan on posting this "Vol VII" of the Bavarians. I think you might find it interesting, and will have a surprise or two.

Excuse the rambling !! And again, Welcome Sir!!

Ronnie

You ordered a Bavarian Carbine, that is what it is! 2 of my 4 Bavarians have the markings ground off the front of the receiver. Thats the "luck of the draw" part. If you wanted a straight up GI carbine, you shoulda ordered one! Please post up some pix!

chad

I have to agree that there is a major difference with what "is" and what alot of CMP buyers think it "should be". To borrow from an old CO, maybe we "need to manage our expectations better..."

Buyers have the expectation of what "should be". They want the weapon to be like-new, never fired with an original barrel, an I-stock with clear cartouches and to every original part attached to the receiver from the day it left the factory.

What it "is" is what is sitting in the box when you open it - a 65 year old weapon that has seen AT LEAST one, maybe three wars, that has been cleaned roughly, exposed to the weather (Bastogne, Iwo Jima and Pusan weren't resort beaches, ya know), gone hand-to-hand with an enemy, been stored and neglected, and finally been boxed up and shipped to a new "owner" that is more than likely younger than the weapon itself.

Please remember that buyers are just that - BUYING. And CMP is SELLING - to make money, mind you, as their CORPORATE cash cow. They are not issuing, giving away or providing charity to buyers. They clearly state that they do not guarantee any weapon nor is there any warrantee. Additionally the condition of each category that we CHOOSE (no one forced us to buy) to order is clearly stated. Ok, we luck out sometimes and the weapon we receive is better than the listed condition. But CMP is clear about the standards of each condition category.

Alot of WWII veterans (our fathers and grandfathers) came home worse for wear. Some came home with wounds, injuries and scars. Most never got a good night's sleep for years (if ever again). They were not in the condition they were in when they shipped out to go overseas.... Kinda sounds like the carbines...

Those scars, dents, rust spots, wear marks and rebuilt stamps are there after 65 years of true and faithful service.... To me, these carbines "coming home" are just like the old vets - war heros, every last one of them.

Ok, enough of my rant - got my asbestosis underwear on if anyone wants to use a flame thrower...

well said!:thup:

I have been collecting Bavarians for about ten years. When I first posted on CSP about them I got, "trashed" by everybody. Stop collecting rubbish they said. Now everybody wants one ! It's amazing how times change ! In this case, I would keep that Carbine in the hope that I could find the German sight that the "grinding" was done for. A friend of mine has one, (with the sight), and it features on Jim MOCKS, BavarianM1Carbines .com.

Just found the pics. Here's three of mine. See how some clown has lightly ground off the German marking on the left receiver rail (top). But I'm keeping it as it is otherwise a very nice I.B.M.

guys, thanks for all the responses. mabye my expectations were too high...mabye not. ;)

just to clear the air i certainly didnt expect a pristine like new gun. 99% of the time i am very easy to please. CMP goes into pretty good detail of flaws and what to expect on these guns. if a short little note describing the grinding off of US markings would have been on the ad page this would have been a non issue. one of the reasons i picked the service grade was to up my chances at a little bit better gun.


i take it i am not the first to be suprised by this. a lot of luck of the draw has been brought up and i am not complaining a didnt get a winchester or some other more desirable model. as mention above if the ad would have said "some guns have US Carbine/.30 Cal ground off of receiever" i would be posting pics instead of this first post :)

Thanks for all the well thought out reply's. who knows i might just order another one...at least this time i know what to expect. lollol ;)

Honestly,

You received a great gun for a very good price that is in the 'collector' category on your very first 'luck of the draw' -

Collector guns is not what the CMP is, or has ever been about, and I feel you were very fortunate with what you received.

JMO, and I tried to keep it to myself.