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Hi everyone,
Sorry about not being here recently, I've been busy at the Olympics (working, not winning medals!).
Anyways, just found a sporterized No4, made by "Whitworth Rifle Company". Never heard about that company. Anyone has some info to share?
Lou
If its a muzzle loader with hexagonal bullets I'd take two...
Those two terms (Whitworth-No4) just don't quite belong along side each other.:confused: Well, "Enfield" ties 'em together...
Googling around, besides the well known US Civil war rifles that were produced by Whitworth, it seems they or another firm of the same name, 150 years later, was into conversion of military arms, like the P-17, and also made some big game rifles, 375 H & H, etc. Post WWII time frame from what I could gather. No word on Lee Enfields being converted. Just a quick run down, tho. hth.
The same legendary Whitworth who invented the screw thread?
Well that's interesting and strange then. In a few days, I'll receive a commercial No4Mk1 sporter that, according to the owner, has "Whitworth" on the barrel. Can't wait... So stay tuned,
Lou
could whitworth have done barrels like Motty did here in Australia?
Cheers
NED
The breeching up thread on the Enfields is BSW = British Standard Whitworth
It would have to be a "three band Enfield" muzzleloader with a Whitworth barrel, or perhaps one should say "Whitworth's Rifling". They do exist but I don't have time to dig out the books just now.
Grab it if the price is below a grand and the condition is nice. (And that's conservative BTW)
Lou,
Pretty sure the little No 4 I had was done by Whitworth. It had a five shot mag and was polished up as nice as any could be (not including a Lee Speed of course). That gun would shoot too. It still wore the peep sight and had a black forend tip if I recall, stocks of walnut.
BIL picked up a K98 with Whitworth on the barrel, clearly a milsurp revamped. Not nearly as nice as the Enfield I had and didn't shoot too well but got the job done for an entry level gun.
Seen more than a few of those Brands onthe barrels at the Cow town show in Easter.
Ok, I just received it! Here are a couple of pics. The action is of a 1943 Longbranch No4Mk1*.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...itworth2-1.jpg
On the barrel, we can read "Whitworth Rifle Company, Manchester England"
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...itworth1-1.jpg
Lou
I'm fairly sure that's not an 1860's precision rifle...:rolleyes:
Quite. I wonder who bought the name - and who owns it now for that matter!
I'm fairly sure that's not an 1860's precision rifle...:rolleyes: 1960's-1970's hunting rifle, yes. I think the company was also doing new manfacture muzzle loaders (of the famous old sniper/target rifle) at this time as well.
ETA-ETA Somehow the edited post became a new one...:dunno:
Hmm. Had you posted that view of the sporter stocked rifle without any reference to Whitworth, I'd have been looking for the words Parker and Hale. Just the way it looks.
You don't reckon there might have been some sharing going on at the time? There's Whitworth rifles, Parker Hale Whitworth rifles, "Non-" Parker Hale Whitworths. It gets sort of confusing.
Either way it's a really nice looking sporter, very worthwhile.
BTW, I did a repair like the one you're doing on the SMLE fore end in the background, could you post some pics?
That is one nice looking rifle, and Whitworth being there is icing on the cake!
Thanks for the input guys. The stock requires refinishing, the varnish is peeling off everywhere, and there are a few dents. The blueing is worn with some surface rust spots. But besides that, a pretty nice rifle.
tbonesmith, here's a close-up pic of the repair on the SMLE stock (sorry it's slightly blurry). This is for a dewat No1Mk3* that will be used in teaching WW1 history at my wife's school.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ckrepair-1.jpg
Yup, identical to the one I picked up for $40. I was wondering if I was missing something with all the posts about the 1860's guns.
They sure made a shooter of the one I had, the most accurate Enfield I've had to date, hope yours points them the same.
Not missing anything but that "Whitworth Rifle" is almost invariably associated w/ the muzzleloader of great fame. Generally considered the first "production" rifle to be at least remotely accurate out to a 1000yds. (Meaning that an experienced shooter wouldn't be wasting his time attempting to regularly hit individual man sized targets at that distance.)
Re 1860's guns; Just to paraphrase something famous and better known than I can do it justice, what was known as the whitworth rifle was a musket of .451 cal/ 550 grain approx bullet, purchased by the confederate south during the civil war. It was reknown for its accuracy out to long ranges, and for its distinctive hexagonal bullets and rifling, plus a single event that has made numerous history books much more interesting reading;Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel
A yankee/northern general used to shave each morning in full view of the confederate lines, and when he was advised to be a bit more cautious he famously said 'They couldn't hit an elephant at this range.'
Needless to say he was soon shot through the throat by a Whitworth sniper rifle. It didn't help the confederates much tho as he was replaced a a much more capable general who cost the confederates a few battles.
There was more back story to it too. Rather than a lone soldier heroically out on a one on one, the day of shooting him had been carefully planned. Scouts crept out at night and placed windage flags way in front of the lines. The best shooters were rounded up, and a group opened fire at one time. The logic was better saturation on the target and it would probably be the only chance, a single shot that failed might scare him out of range.
The range as I heard it, was 1300 yards, a stunning shot from a musket when most were decent at 250 yards and a little more.
You can see plenty of re-enactments on you tube with the same rifles.
Other target rifles that used a type of whitworth rifling, ie the volunteer 451, were reproduced by Parker Hale in the mid 90's, early ones were fully UK made, and some were Italian completed. I bought the .58 1853 enfield 3 band, a beautifully made rifle.
I could coach it to hit the gongs at 800 yards in Los Angeles. That big fat and slow minie ball I had enough time before impact for the smoke to blow away and have the butt on my shoe about the same time as the impact, highly satisfying stuff.
I would love to have a whitworth rifle.
One original one has been touring our local gunshows for sale at about $2500, and includes it history of competing/winning right up to the late 60's. No one wants it except me it seems, I just don't have the bucks.
I slight drawback to the whitworth is that the rifling is prone to fouling to the point of being unshootable, ie the bullet won't go down the hole, as soon as 10 shots. If you're range shooting thats not an issue but in the front lines I'd say so...
The bullet goes down the barrel like an 1860's artillary shell, it screws in as it follows the rifling when being loaded in. Gunpowder fouling sure gets in the way.
I might have a few parts of my story mixed up, but thats a general picture of why the whitworth is attention getting.
I'd bet that the whitworth name was owned by parker hale during the reproduction phase in the 90's, and for some reason decided to stamp it on their other rifles other than muskets, perhaps there's something unusual about the rifling in your rifle? Take a good look.
Well after a few hours of work, the rifle looks great. Started with chipping varnish on the wood and surface rust and uneven blue on the metal (whatever was left anyways). Can't wait to shoot and see how she performs,
Lou
A pair of Lee Enfield; SMLE, and No4Mk2 sporter (Whitworth) - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
Nice job, Lou!