A Very Interesting Day

Got a phone call today at work from the local gun shop I've done business with over the years. They know I am a carbine nut. When something carbine comes up they give me a call. Today they had an older gentleman asking questions about his carbine and he requested to meet with me after work. I agreed and the carbine turned out to be a completely original M2 Winchester. Someone had ground the serial number and receiver ring. It had been given to him by a returning vet from Korea. At my urging, he is getting with the owner of the gun shop and calling ATF tomorrow for disposition.

He did let me break it down and look at the parts. All of the M2 parts were present except for the selector switch. There was much grime and dried cosmo. The stock was lightly sanded of external markings and varnished, but is a type 4 flat bottom, with internal areas cut away for M2 parts. There was a W on the inside right ledge of the receiver area. It is also a short channel stock. The barrel was not W marked and had the circle Winchester proof mark just ahead of the type 3 barrel band which is C marked. It was also interesting to see a push button "EW" safety as well as a type 3 rear sight. The handguard is a type 3 but had the W in the barrel channel instead of the normal bottom edge flat. The W is also a larger marking than what is normally seen on Winchester handguards. The wood grain matches the stock.

This is not some put together carbine, or one that has been through a collector's hands. It is a stolen carbine that had visible information filed off and then stashed away. Other than the lightly sanded and varnished stock, it appeared completely original in every way. Although there is a good chance it will be destroyed, I'm glad to have had the opportunity for a close look.

Its sad that all those original non-M2 parts will get destroyed along with the receiver/9 kit. Hyperthetical question (because the entire thing is a stolen weapon), what parts have to be surrendered to ATF? In theory, could the old man have sold the non-M2 parts and turned just the M2 parts over to ATF? I am NOT advocating any illegal acts, just curious as to what the legal requirements actually are for future instances....

That is a good question and I do not know. It had all of the M2 parts present, except the selector lever, to include the disconnector assembly, and disconnector lever assembly. He contacted the gun store and they will contact ATF.

have the gunshop or owner request new serial from ATF, I have gotten 2 of them now for serial grind offs-unless they can prove was a M2 is ok, no 2 should be fine, I doubt if they will go to trouble to find out-it will be easier for them to issue a new number-they don't stamp the numbers any more they will make you get that done, they will require you to bring it back and verify its on it. The agent told me they have to prove was used in crime for them to take but they will take if you volunteer it. One more gun off the street. Ask for new serial first. By law you are clear the minute you ask them. You don't want to carry it around and debate it.

So if the store owner would have stripped it of parts and cut up the receiver (destroyed) would this have been a legal issue?

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Originally Posted by wtmr

have the gunshop or owner request new serial from ATF, I have gotten 2 of them now for serial grind offs-unless they can prove was a M2 is ok, no 2 should be fine, I doubt if they will go to trouble to find out-it will be easier for them to issue a new number-they don't stamp the numbers any more they will make you get that done, they will require you to bring it back and verify its on it. The agent told me they have to prove was used in crime for them to take but they will take if you volunteer it. One more gun off the street. Ask for new serial first. By law you are clear the minute you ask them. You don't want to carry it around and debate it.

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Thanks Marcus, I will pass this info along.

By federal law ( state laws may apply) , the reciever can not be renumbered because the front ring was wiped too ( may have been marked M2 , and once a MG always a MG) so it must be turned in. The full auto parts are legal if one of the crital 7 is missing , the selector is one of the 7 and it is missing. As such , strip everything off and surender the bare reciever.
Chris

Went by the gun shop after work. They stripped the parts and turned in the receiver. All of the parts have been taken. Glad they salvaged the parts.

damn! talk about vultures picking parts quickly! I never got a chance! Not fair not fair!!!

Seriously, other than the parts you already listed, were there any interestingly marked pieces that were rare?

Hope the cash for the parts made the old man happy...

It's all getting to be a bit of a problem Marcus/David. I've bought 3 x M1's lately and all the internals have been M2, except there was no selector switch. Must have been some persons way of "legalising" them ? Mike.

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Originally Posted by Tired Retired

damn! talk about vultures picking parts quickly! I never got a chance! Not fair not fair!!!

Seriously, other than the parts you already listed, were there any interestingly marked pieces that were rare?

Hope the cash for the parts made the old man happy...

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I think it made him happy. He obviously was concerned because he initially would not bring the carbine into the shop, hence the private meeting at a store parking lot. I really think he's glad it's been resolved.

Regarding the parts, no real surprises as everything was Winchester. Would have liked to have known the serial number but it had been totally obliterated. The name Winchester was clearly visible. The lack of a W marking on the barrel would indicate a later number. The "EW" push safety as well as the short channel stock factory cut for M2 parts was interesting. Also most of the 7.2 range carbines have a type 2 rear sight and this one was type 3 with an H in a shield possibly indicating a 6.5 range. It also had a round blue bolt and a thumbnail front sight with a blue pin showing white metal around the pin hole almost as if the sight had been recently installed. The finish was mostly a light translucent gray being very thin in places. The large W marking in the channel of the handguard was also very interesting as was the W on the ledge of the inner receiver area of the stock. Typical of late Winchesters it was built like a tank, rough as a cob but tough as nails.

One final note. The "Winchester" logo was partially obscured under the rear sight like my 6.5 and unlike my 7.2 which is fully visible.

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Originally Posted by Mikey51

It's all getting to be a bit of a problem Marcus/David. I've bought 3 x M1's lately and all the internals have been M2, except there was no selector switch. Must have been some persons way of "legalising" them ? Mike.

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This one was obviously removed in an attempt to hide the fact it's an M2. But with the grinding of the serial number and receiver ring the point was moot.

I really like the late era M2 parts. They represent the "final" refinements and appear to be overbuilt. If I were to have to use my carbines, it would be one of the late Winchesters. It sure would be nice not to have to worry about an M2 receiver in NZ. Cheers Mikey. :beerchug: