3 problems with my early 1911 need advice.

Colt 1911 Forum Post:

I recenctly acquired a very nice Colt 1911, serial number 72,xxx, and paid about $400 which is worrisome since I was not in a place or had the time to do alot of research on the gun. My internet studies and field testing show its a great 1911 and good shooter, but that three problems that i have identified are really going to hurt its value, but I am unclear as to how much its value will suffer-your comments and ideas are appreciated.

Problems:
1. United States Property on left side of colt is missing, and has been rather crudely scratched off, its very apparant although my pics dont show it very well. Was this common to remove this marking, and why? By the way, all other inspector stamps, the colt pony, and other marking are very nice, just USP was removed.

2. Lets get the grinder after it! Look at the nifty cross hatching marks on the frame beneath the trigger guard, and on the grip safety. Anyone ever seen this done before? It appears a very old modification, I suppose to improve grip.

3. Piece under the grip safety is later model, and without laynard, although I have been told that piece if findable and I have a big gun show coming up-what would a fair price be?

Thanks for any ideas. I am glad I bought it, and likely would not give it back because the rest of the gun is in such great shape, but I would like to know your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Too bad about the "modifications" to the pistol which cannot be reversed or corrected. The arched mainspring housing can be switched out for the flat, 1911 type but with the condition the pistol is in, I'd just enjoy it as a fun shooter. $400 doesn't sound too high at todays' prices.

The USP removal was common for a GI liberating a M1911 in the bottom of his duffle bag. The rest of the crude cross hatching is not. Someones personal taste unfortunately. In addition to you finding a correct mainspring housing, you will also need to find the correct short hammer, and earlier grips. The hammer pictured is of later vintage, as are the grips. One thing you fail to mention is the barrel. If correct... terrific, if not.... ouch.... Early Colt military barrels are a tough find, and very expensive once sourced.

Prior to attempting to correct the obvious, you may want to reconsider as the collector value is almost completely gone, even if you do spend more money on corrections. Once altered, it is forever.....It was original at one time, but unfortunately that ship has sailed.

After looking at the pictures again, it appears that someone has been filing on the rear of the front site.

until the 1950,s it was illegal to own a gun that was marked USP..
they then changed the law, as its public domain.
all are fixable for a price cept the front of the mag well, look close, they rounded it off right up to the bottom of the grip stock...what a shame..

If it shoots well it was worth the $400. 15 to 20 years ago, That statement was not so but today I would gladly pay $400 for a shooter. They are great guns and my favorite handful.

200.00 worth of grips alone...

You could have gotten much less for $400...I think you did okay for the money. I don't think it will ever be a collectible worth a lot more again. Originality cannot be restored.

Some parts might be replaced, but that will not affect value too much one way or the other. I'd suggest leaving the pistol as is to take advantage of the good price you paid and enjoy it as an inexpensive shooter that is a "has-been".

Well, ok thanks for the replies and that pretty much sums up one the strangest gun transactions I will ever have. Out of about 12 pistols and rifles I drug home (estate sale, sort off) , the 1911 Colt was supposed to be the prize, but it has all worked out backwards. I will just enjoy it for what it is, and it is a great shooter. I will try to put up pics later of the Argentina pattern 1911 that I paid $100 (same deal) for that my Buddy was telling me to leave behind as a unsafe clone with little finish remaining. Turns out it has a "B" serial number and is one of 8000 made for the Brits during WWII, and is apparently worth more than the one posted here. You never know.

Based on what you report, I'd say you are relatively lucky. Shooting from the hip in the dark often brings much more disastrous results. I suppose I'm just more of a coward...I don't typically buy on speculation. If I don't know, I generally keep my money in my pocket. However, it sounds like the prices were good enough to jump in and take a chance. Congratulations...I think. We haven't heard about the other 10 and their prices. :yikes: ;)

Texwing,

You sound 'down in the dumps' -
Referring to a vintage gun as a 'shooter' is not meant as a put down.
As Scott said, you did very well! It's almost impossible to find an authentic 1911 in working condition for the price you paid. I would have paid $400 for it in a heartbeat.
Though it's not a $2500 'collector', you could turn around and easily sell it for much more than you paid for it. (I'd keep it though!)

You purchased a piece of very interesting History for a low price, AND you can have the joy of shooting it without the constant fear of breaking some original part and ruining it's value. :thup:

Oh I am really happy about the whole deal, it was just one of those once in a life time (for me anyway) deals that I was in the right place at the right time with cash and was pretty much grabbing everything I could, under the theory that at the prices I was paying I could not go too wrong. Its just that what I thought was the best stuff (the 1911 and a luger) turned out to be decent deals with the noted flaws. The real prizes were the horrible looking trapdoor springfield that turned out to be a pretty good prize (early allin conversion), and a Military Model 12 Winchester, and that Argentina "Molina" 1911 I mentioned earlier, and on and on, and that stuff was way cheaper than the 1911. Sorry for the bragging, it was just a once in a lifetime deal. Wow. Thanks for all the help.

The upside to that 1911 is the you can enjoy shooting the "dogsnot" out of it and not feel guilty whilst enjoying a fine bit of craftsmanship. My favorite is a 1924 commercial gov't model made for the Argentine Navy. Absolutely a fantastic original pistol, just not real pretty! I'll let others make safe queens out of 'em.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Texwing

...Sorry for the bragging, it was just a once in a lifetime deal. Wow. Thanks for all the help.

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No apology necessary. It's always fun to hear about the findings of others and to explore what they got. It sounds like you did very well...not as good as the guy who paid $600 for a nice, original Singer rig...but you still did okay.

Had the pistol been a nice, original piece, it would have been worth more than all the other pieces combined. So perhaps you didn't win the lottery jackpot...just like millions of other people. You at least came on on top, far better than most playing the game without specific collector knowledge.

Normally we read where someone paid the price of a collectible to get something that floats in the commode. You are way ahead of that. :)

Some guys seem to think purist collectors look down on those who don't buy all original collectibles. That's not true. We only look down on those who buy nice collectibles and make shooters out of them or ruin them by nor preserving them. :banghead:

Brag away young man. I would.
Shout it from the rooftops if you want to.
You may not have hit the big prize but a lot of lesser prizes still pays off.
Congrats

Well I suppose should find out what I can, a post in this thread asked about the barrel, which does read "COLT .45 AUTO" on the top of the barrel visible in the chamber cut out. How can I tell if the barrel is original?

That's not the barrel with which the pistol was originally assembled. It would have had no markings visible in the ejection port. Original military barrels proper to the time period aren't exactly common, esp. in good shape (unless they're in a pistol already).

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Originally Posted by jmoore

That's not the barrel with which the pistol was originally assembled. It would have had no markings visible in the ejection port. Original military barrels proper to the time period aren't exactly common, esp. in good shape (unless they're in a pistol already).

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That is incorrect about the original Colt barrel in the OP's pistol. A 1914 pistol in that serial range would have had the letters H and P stamped on top of the chamber and visible through the ejection port, where it could be read left to right while holding the pistol the same way (not with the muzzle up in the air). That Colt barrel marking is commonly called the horizontal P H (or H P).

Dang, mind's going! For some reason, I thought the "H" was on the END of the barrel shroud. (And I was just looking at some of mine yesterday...)

Texwing;

I have an all original Black Army in the lower 500,000 range...looks just like yours (minus the filing), and has the USP scratched off as well.....It was probably through 3 wars for all I know.....I looked into restoring the USP, as you can still see some of it, but decided to let the old timer rest.....it did it's duty and has the scars to prove it...


I think you did well for only $400

The only markings I can find is as H and an R visible in the ejection port, readable left to right if the piston is pointed straight up, and then the COLT .45 AUTO on top of the barrel when the action is closed. Sorry I dont know the 1911 part names to say all this right-but I am taking it that original barrels did not say the "colt .45 auto" on top of the barrel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Texwing

....but I am taking it that original barrels did not say the "colt .45 auto" on top of the barrel?

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That is correct, no Colt military production barrels had 'Colt 45 Auto' on the barrel hood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Dang, mind's going! For some reason, I thought the "H" was on the END of the barrel shroud. (And I was just looking at some of mine yesterday...)

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The vertical, or horizontal 'H' proofed barrels on the hood end, are much earlier production.