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Man comes back to his house after working. Finds a 44 year old burglar going through his house. They both see each other. Bad guy goes for his pistol and the home owner stabs him in the chest with a reproduction Jap sword.
Coroner does exam and wants home owner charged with homocide!! No charges yet for the home owner.
Only here in NW pa.
Don't underestimate the stupidity that can be found in any state.
Hope the sword wasn't damaged.
It was only a reproduction.There is a use for them!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rum
On a serious note I guess PA doesn't have the castle doctrine?
Sounds completely crazy.
Some links would really help to get a picture of what actually happened.
Are you sure that this happend in the States and not here in Germany? I thought only we have stupid laws.
Regards
Gunner
Gunner, at least you have the Autobon!!! We still have a speeeeed limt
Yes, i like to drive our cars with 280Km/h if the Autobahn is free! It is a nice adrenalin fun.
Regards
Gunner
Pa is like Va, no castle doctrine. As a fellow said we have the shoot , shovel and shutup doctrine.
So what are people who live in PA. to do if a bad guy break's in with a gun, get your family togeather and leave your house?
Here in GA. if you feel your life is in danger you are leg. to shoot the bad guy till the gun goes click and i've told my wife if im not home and this kind of thing happen's that's what she is to do, and she will.
There must be more to the story.
I would like to put in a good word for edged weapons .. the guy used a sword to put down a man armed with a firearm. I've got a handgun somewhere. I think it's locked in a steel case in my garage. Over my bed I've got a 100-year-old, razor-sharp sword I picked up in northern Thailand. I know how to use it.
When I lived in Philadelphia I had a similar setup, but with a well-sharpened Knights of Pythias sword. I found in the trash.
If things got rough, I'd probably get a dog as well.
As Iboos said, there may be more to the story.
jn
Nothing more to the story. Stabber has not been charged yet. Stabbee has/had a long record of these things. No obit yet. The guy was 22 not 44.
General feeling is that the police dept does not want to charge him but coroner does. May turn out to be a cat fight between the two. More news at 2100 hrs!
A FBI man told me one time that in order for you to use deadly force, the scene must meet the criteria of:
1. Means
2. Intent
In this case, the bad guy had a pistol (stolen) and body language of him was that he was going to use it. I do not know if the bad guy said anything. You might find something in GoErie.Com.
Unfortunately there are parts of the Autobahn - out in open areas, no less - now that have speed limits as low a 100 KPH (60 MPH). A real pain in the *** since I'm happier at 170 KPH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired Retired
Sarge
1. In no state does a coroner have the authority to bring charges of any sort. This is the role of the District Attorney. In many states, the coroner may not have any medical training and may also be an elected official.
2. The Castle Defense is base on English coomon law which is the basis of the juris prudence system in the US, and to some degree, in Canada. The key point is the reasonable fear of harm by an intruder.
3. Much of the yada yada has to do with passing state Castle Defense laws which absolve one of civil liability (try to get this to stick) in cases of questionable uses of deadly force.
Pennsylvania 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 505 on the defense of self says there is no obligation to retreat from the home or workplace unless the actor was the initial aggressor or, in the latter case, set upon by a co-worker; however, "surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto" and "complying with a demand that [one] abstain from any action which [one] has no duty to take" are listed in addition to retreating as avenues which, if open to the actor but not taken, invalidate justification for the use of deadly force. Deadly force itself is not justifiable unless "the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat." 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 507 allows the use of deadly force if the actor believes there has been an unlawful entry into his or her dwelling and believes that nothing less than deadly force will end the incursion; if the person on the receiving end of the deadly force is "attempting to dispossess [the actor] of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession;" or if deadly force is the only thing that will prevent a felony from being committed in the dwelling. In any of those cases, the property owner must first ask the interloper to desist — unless the owner believes that doing so would be "useless," "dangerous," or would result in the property being defended coming to substantial harm before the request to desist could be effectively communicated.
Looks like the coroner is barking up the wrong tree.
thepriapus,
If some one break's into your home and has a gun [reasonable fear of harm] dosen't that in itself give you the right to shoot him, in any state?
I also diden't think that a coroner had the authority to bring charges of any kind....Thank's.
Actually in November 2009, they where trying to pass the bill. But i think they where gonna do it without the retreat part. And the definition of a loaded gun would be a loaded clip or bullets in seperate pouch or box.
I remember the advice a long time policeman gave me many years ago. Kill the intruder and funny thing when they go to take his statement he for some strange reason has nothing to say. His big thing was if you are not safe in your house where are you safe? He was a good cop, bucked the system a little but trustworthy. Here in Canada you probably would be charged and spend the rest of your life in Jail. I know of a retired policeman that has a long piece of iron pipe in the corner beside his front door, when asked if was for self-defence he said "hell no" after I shoot the ******* I'm going to put it in his hand. Go figure.
Canada is big on the use of "reasonable force". If a 150lb. crackhead breaks into my house armed with a knife and my wife shoots and kills him, she may not be punished. I am 6ft. 1in. tall and weigh 230lbs., if I do the same thing there is every liklihood that I would be charged because I should be able to physically subdue him. That is the way it was explained to me by a LEO.
Mike you are 100% correct about the law in Canada, the problem as I see it is one police oganization in particular are too quick to judge the "innocent" as the agressor. I believe I should be perfectly safe in my home but our "limp wrist" laws say I should wait for the police to arrive, like I have the time to try to baracade myself in my bathroom now that I am no longer a 30 year old. I remember the discussion on the radio a few years ago about legistlation being introduced in Oklahoma (?) about a home owner being legally protected if they kill a intruder. All to dogooders cried foul and that it would be abused by homeowners, well aparently it has not been abused at all and B&E's have been drastically reduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike webb
I like Texas law. All of you are welcome to relocate to Texas. Not only do we have conceled carry, but we can have a pistol in the car.
ridiculous. i'm not entirely sure on the laws here in Kalifornia (although i assume they're stupid), but if i ever see a guy robbing my place he's not leaving alive, case closed.
"Zatoichi" (Shintaro Katsu), the blind swordsman, would be proud.
It troubles me when someone, such as a coronor, gets press and recommends publicly that homicide charges be brought up when someone uses necessary force to save their (or their family's) life. It really paints the Prosecutor into a corner; but it would be really nice to see in this case that the DA says the coroner's recommendation is rejected, we've investigated this, and determined that the subject acted properly and we will not seek any criminal charges against this person. He acted appropriately and when faced with the probablity of mortal danger he did the right thing.
Now wouldn't that be nice!
As I thought, the coroner is an elected officail in PA
"In Pennsylvania's 67 counties, two are ME systems and one is an elected forensic pathologist/coroner. Nominal qualifications otherwise in the remaining 64 counties, and practicing morticians may be elected. About 50% are practicing morticians and 10% EMTs or paramedics."
Contrast with Maryland where tha coroner is a licensed Medical Examiner (Physician) with extensive pathology training.
This may explain why the PA coroner is so ready to assume a prosecutorial role. H'e hunting votes.
Intruder stabbed to death with ornamental sword in Erie, police say | - PennLive.com
Delvon J. Crockett, Unlucky Burglar, Killed by Homeowner with Ornamental SwordQuote:
Intruder stabbed to death with ornamental sword in Erie, police say
By The Associated Press
March 11, 2010, 9:29AM
ERIE, Pa. — Erie police and the county coroner are continuing to investigate the death of a man who was stabbed with an ornamental sword after he apparently broke into another man’s home.
Police have not charged nor released the name of the homeowner who stabbed 24-year-old Delvon Crockett in the chest about 11:30 p.m. Tuesday. Erie police Chief Steve Franklin says the home owner returned from work to find Crockett there and stabbed Crockett with a sword that had been hanging on the wall.
Police had not filed any charges by this morning. District Attorney Jack Daneri said the investigating was continuing.
Court records show Crockett has a history of gun and drug charges.
Hope the cops wiped the blood off the sword so it does not rust. Be a shame if it gets ruined.Quote:
Delvon J. Crockett, Unlucky Burglar, Killed by Homeowner with Ornamental Sword
True Crime Report ^ | 3/12/2010 | Pete Kotz
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 12:24:36 PM by NMEwithin
The 29-year-old man arrived home from work at his flat in Erie, Pennsylvania and immediately noticed something wrong. His dog was acting strangely, and he heard a noise coming from the apartment. So he grabbed an ornamental sword from the wall...
The unnamed man found an armed Delvon J. Crockett, 24, apparently trying to burglarize his house. So he stabbed him once in the chest with the sword, fled to another room, and called 911.
By the time police arrived, Crockett was dead on the floor near a door. They also recovered what appears to be Crockett's .380 automatic.
The homeowner wasn't injured, but he may have saved his own life. Crockett had a history of gun, drug and assault charges.
Should be interesting to follow this case as it moves along. I wonder if the defender or his neighbors have set up a site for donations to his defense fund?