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Here is a genuine documented set of photos of the true SMLE where the shooter was hit by an AP round. The core went down the barrel leaving the envelope behind in the muzzle, detonated the round in the chamber and blew it up. He was only shaken. :eek:
We have the full documented story at Warminster. :thup:
Attachment 11164 - Attachment 11165 - Attachment 11166 - Attachment 11167 - Attachment 11168 - Attachment 11169
Just goes to show you can't trust those inherently weak rear locking actions.
If it was a mouser the operator would have been able to clear the obstruction by firing a clearing round and kept on firing.:lol:
you know Lithy you are nearly right. Having seen some of the Warminster collection and the results of hits the Lee_Enfield is no weakling just the best battle rifle for its period in time plus. I have seen more blown front lockers than Lee_Enfields so go figure and that includes wildcats on the Lee_Enfield 303 action and case
Q for the powers that are: Would it be possible and or wise to have a sticky showing the above photos and any others that exist showing just how good the Lee_Enfield is in the design, strength department.
We have a reasonably large selection of damaged rifles. This rifle is so damaged that it's impossible to lift the bolt. But I suppose that an AP round would have this effect.
Glad that it attracted a bit of attention chaps!. Next week I'll get the info/dates re the incident and put it up
That is interesting and it shows also that the LE is strong enough to have this. BTW did the shooter ask for Warranty repair?;) Last time i`ve seen an ex sniper rifle the sniper hasn`t that luck. The round hits the left side of the scope and went trough the sniper too. Hope i can find the pic.
Thanks for sharing it Peter.
Regards
Gunner
Amazing!
I saw the Warminster collection in 1996 and 1997 with the CF Bisley team and took a series of photos way back when. I'd have to scan them to post them up, but I recall being extremely impressed by that collection.
If I remember right, there's one room with a "ready" rack of M-16, AK, etc that were out for handling, and when I picked up the M-16, it turned out NOT to be an M-16, rather, an EARLY AR-15, but it had the 3 position selector!
Pretty neat! I use that as an example for people who say that the AR-15 is only a semi-auto.
A delightful collection. What was the tank out front again?
NS
Is this what is called an "exploded view picture"?
Anyone else get the feeling that at sometime, somewhere some of these photos will show on a headspace/weak action phobia thread?
Brad
Did it happen in the R A I N ?
No - it was after using OILED ammunition !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Hey,Hey,Hey, your joking up.... ähhmm..., be ashamed!:eek:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Regards
Gunner
I wonder what the soldier said ? I bet it wasn't " Blimey" or "Gosh" :D
We did buy a small quantity of commercial AR-15s in the 1960s for use in the Far East. They were the early ones without the bolt assist.
Do you think "someone" sometime will try to say this is a AIA rifle??Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtx
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
The case definitely did not take up half of the bolt thrust.
ha ha ha! yep , musta happened in the rain....
I was re-reading this thread ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Love the pics ... :thup:
Peter, what's the chance of getting the documentation scanned and we can create a Knowledge Library article around it?
I also remembered a couple of other threads and an MKL article on similar subjects.
Friday 13th SMLE sniper damage
Exploding P14 Grenade Discharger Cups (by Peter Laidler)
1912 No.1 MkIII Enfield Rifle (Battle Damaged)
Thanks .. :)
Regards,
Badger
So just to clarify this is NOT a result of firing AP ammo, but of the gun being HIT by AP ammo ?
Thanks in advance
Gaz
In the most bizarre moments of conflict, items like this makes for a most interesting read and viewing. Wonder if any museum has ever gathered this sort of battle damaged small arms and composed an exhibit?
We have a collection of about 10 of these and similar battlefield pickups
I've been thinking about it and can't fully grasp how the AP core "ignited" the cartridge in the chamber. I can see how the AP core might drive the projectile into the case and cause an "obstruction" that would lead to the burst barrel if the trigger were pulled and the primer ignited. I'm sure no one will ever know for sure, but....
Any thoughts on that Peter?
Thanks,
Emri
Just thinking off the top of my head, ignition would be simple. The hard and pretty fast AP bullet would tend to crush the chambered .303" round and the crushing/compression of the cordite might tend to cause it to self ignite but I'm not a chemist but a mechanical engineer. Maybe someone else could comment on that. But even if it didn't self ignite under the extreme compression, this compression would have a tendency to drive the anvil back into the cap and that would certainly ignite!
Theories aside, I wasn't there but ignite and explode it certainly did as the pictorial evidence shows!
I have been asked a couple of times regarding use of the picures. You are free to use them but the photo credit must state 'UK MoD (SASC) Army'. Maybe Badger will require a Forum credit. Badger.........
Diesel principle, yes?
Off the subject a bit JM, and putting my part time Physics teachers hat on............. what would cause it to self ignite and why? With aplogies to Emri, I deliberately side swerved the dieseling bit of the question because I couldn't UNDERSTAND why
In the next few weeks I'll add pictures of some of the other damaged weapons
Whilst supposedly the Cordite, being a non-gaseous substance in non-ignited form should not compress and heat, might there not be enough air in the cartridge to compress and heat to a temperature sufficient to fire the round?
Additionally, I reckon the incoming round's energy would largely be converted to heat as it RAPIDLY decellerates in the chamber.
If the incoming bullet obturated the bore well, there ought to be plenty of "fairly" hot air rushing into the case as well! (What's the compression ratio for THAT scenario?!!!)
Got that JM and thanks. When the point is dicuseed next time its raised here at Warminster, I'll throw that in. Thanks again
I'm not so velly sma't... If I was, I'd have remembered somebody already made a working firearm using this principal. It was a rifle sold by Daisy in the sixties!
Quote stolen from Pyramydair.com's blog below:
"In 1968 Daisy, brought out a really strange gun. It was a .22 that fired caseless ammunition, which was ignited by the adiabatic heat of a conventional spring-piston airgun powerplant. That's right, a pellet rifle that shot a 40-grain lead bullet at 1100 f.p.s. It was a firearm, of course; but, because Daisy built it, it had a plastic stock. The Daisy VL was never popular with anyone, and they're still sluggish on the used market today. By the way, if you're wondering if one could be used as a spring-piston air rifle - you can forget it. The bore is sized for the standard .22 rimfire caliber of 0.222"-0.223" instead of the airgun size of 0.218." Pellets shoot at 300 f.p.s. or less because of the excessive blowby. Daisy ceased selling the gun in 1969."