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I got this neat old trainer a few years ago. It has a near perfect bore for all it's age and history. It is marked Tyne 5 on the buttstock. I did a search and found a book titled "Royal Grammer School, New Castel on Tyne" by Brian Mains. On page 170 it is mentioned that Arthur M. Sutherland donated a rifle range around 1915. Do you think the rifle comes from this school or have any better ideas?
Thanks!
Gundoc
Gundoc, Have you more pics, one showing the full rifle.
Here are some more.
Gundoc
Lance posted a nice series on the .22 Enfields ...
.22 Enfield's (Collection Photo Essay)
Regards,
Badger
First of all, that's MY rifle, I want it and you have to give it back!:super::super:
More seriously, I'm worried by the spellings in the title of your book which ought to read:
Royal Grammar School, Newcastle upon Tyne
But is your rifle the one referred to in the book? It's probably now impossible to tell without direct and verifiable contemporary written evidence or photographs.
Nice Rifle Gundoc,
A stab in the dark but This link may give you a bit more info,
http://www.northumberlandfusiliers.o...e/unitfram.htm
As the 5th Regiment of Foot, was the Northumberland Fusilers, based in Tyneside and with the age of the rifle they may of still used the name " 5th "
Nice rifle
.22 short rifle Mk11 Naval issue?
The magazine is curious as it looks the wrong type. It doesn't stick
out enough. Did it come with the rifle?
Eric, The magazine shell was in the rifle as received, I am sure it is not correct but it is handy to catch spent cases, and can be removed if one wants. I am not aware of markings from navel use. Thanks all for the replies.
Gundoc
The magazines were remove in this conversion according to the bible. That looks like it might be a carbine mag. Nice looking rifle
It looks more like an aftermarket "Santa Fe" et al. 5rd hunting mag to me.
Yes? No?
Note that the ribs stop short of the bottom of the magazine body.
Well Mr. jmoore you are exactly right about the magazine. I searched the links provided by bigduke and found the Tyneside Scots, Tyneside Irish and the 5th Northumberland Fusiliers Reg.. I had to wonder why a unit would mark the rifle as to location instead of using something like NFR-5. Does the N by the base of the volley sight refer to Naval issue? Another search found the 4th HMS Tyne was launched in 1878, in 1919 had 1 12 pounder and 2 6 pounders, served as a troopship, and sank in 1920. What are the thoughts on this finding?
Gundoc
Gundoc,
I did say it was a stab in the dark, but i got my dates mixed up regarding markings and regiment abbreviations which changed in 1881 so like you say the Northumberland Fusilers equipment were marked NF.
The fact that the rifle was approved for naval use (1912) and then two years later the start of WW1, with this in mind and regarding the shortage of kit for recruits the rifle could of ended up anywere but with the "TYNE 5" it definitely has something to do with Tyneside, possibly a training battalion but for which force i dont know.
The link here provides info on the (Army) Training Battalions during WW1
The Training Reserve of the British army of 1914-1918
Hi Gundoc
I'm not very knowledgeable but here is my "guess" about your rifle.
Its a very nice .22 short rifle Mk11. It started life as a .303, probably a Mk11
Lee Metford. Around 1912 it was converted to .22 and used by the Royal Navy as a training rifle. The little "N" above the front volley sight denotes this.
When converted the magazine was removed as being a .303 magazine it served no purpose. Later on a magazine case may have been added to catch the spent .22 cases.
Apart from the incorrect magazine I believe it has the wrong rear top wood. Originally it would have been the type found on SMLE Mk 1 series rifles with the sight protector wings. I would imagine at some time it got broken and a later top wood added. Just out of interest I have similar rifle number 718
My feelings on the "Tyne" marking is a bit different to the other answers.
I believe most .22 rifles were used for shore based cadet training.
If you check on the net "TS Tyne" is a sea cadet training unit based in Newcastle. This rifle may have been one of their cadet training rifles at some time. I'm not sure but I think the TS stands for "training ship" even though its a shore based unit. The "5" after Tyne just being the 5th rifle of their stock of rifles.
Eric is correct about the TS Tyne markings.
A similar situation arises where you get just 4 numbers stamped on the stocks of No7 and 8 rifles, such as 6160 which indicates the Air Training Corps squadron (RASF Cadet Force really....). We used to encounter this at workshops where we'd change, say, a split No8 butt for a new one and return the rifle. The old butt would be repaired in the fullness of time, then go back on another Cadet rifle....., to a different unit and they'd think that we'd swopped rifles around.
On the other hand, we'd swop them around just to be bloody minded!
:lol: You don't mean it, I'm sure. :lol:
The "N" on the left side of the butt socket indicates it was converted for the Navy, as were all of the model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundoc
Mine was an 1898 LE MkI* (with another "I" mark and neither struck out...) originally made at the Sparkbrook factory.
Yours looks to have been an 1896 Lee Enfield MkI made at the BSA factory.
Eric has a good point about, T S Tyne, but If the rifle did end its career with the Sea cadets, am sure it would of been marked T.S Tyne, and anything to do with a training ship would be, "TS" marked.