AIA M10 B2 Rifle

First I want to say that my interest in AIA rifles was peaked by two very critical articles someone has posted on "shooters/collectors" sites.

My friend Bearhunter has a M10 B2 and when I discovered this I asked him if we could take it to the range to see how it shot. Of course to you who know Bearhunter personally it didn't take more than one request and it was going to happen.

Yesterday we shot it and it performed very well. We used Milsurp IVI 7.62 X 51 ammo ( it is not a .308 as the critic refered) and it will group better I think with hand loads. I know Bearhunter is going to work-up some different loads just to see if we can get MOA improvement. I believe that it will consistently shoot 1 MOA with the right ammo.

Twice we got it to group just under 1 MOA but not consistently so I think some things need to be improved. The trigger pull was too long and I know this will be changed before our next shoot. I also asked Bearhunter if he would load some 112 grain CETME bullets just to see how well it would handle them.

The rifle is heavy, very well made and at no time were we concerned about our "safety" in using it. Speculation that it is not a safe, well made rifle is just that, speculation. The receiver appears to be much heavier than any of my Lee Enfields and the quality, fit and finish were above my expectations.

I know a comment was made about these rifles being manufactured in Vietnam, well my understanding is the stock is manufactued there. Also if you are talking "nostalgia" how many of us own at least one SKS or anything else from Norinco or for that matter a Honda or a Volkswagen??? Vietnam was a long time ago and it is ok to "never forget" but it is time to "let it go".

Regardless of where it is manufactured it is a quailty rifle and yes expensive. Would I buy one, well since the B2 is almost impossible to find I am going to purchase as a B1, lighter and I am sure will be a great shooter.

I had a question for AIA and sent them a email and they did reply in a timely manner. Bearhunter and I are trying to purchase an A1/A2 in 7.62 X 39 and "Kyle" from AIA answered my inquiry on that. He also explained in detail why they are not shipping to the USA and it totally made sense to me. They are a small company and seem to be able to sell all they make without US sales but this is not why they are no longer shipping to the USA.

I have another friend Rod On that has a AIA No4 Mk4 and that is the next one to take to the range.

To sum up, the M10 B2 is well made, shoots very well and worth the investment.

I have a 7.62X39 and it is all the company says it is. However there is a break in period since the tolerances are so close. Mostly with the magazine.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...old12000-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2763x390-1.jpg

And just what is the reason they don't / won't ship or sell to the USA?
I want one of the M-10's!

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Originally Posted by limpetmine

And just what is the reason they don't / won't ship or sell to the USA?
I want one of the M-10's!

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Kyle told me they were never paid for any of the rifles they sold to the importer not even the freight. AIA apparently had the remaining 140 (M10 A2 models) seized legally and the company storing them sold them to another dealer and again according to Kyle they never rec'd a penny. Apparently AIA was in the process of having the paperwork done to reship the guns (seized) to Canada (Marstar) as they have always had a good working relationship with Marstar and have always been paid by them.

Ive got a no 4 mk 4 US export model and im pretty darn happy with it.

Like you, i reckon its built solid as. Theres nothing wrong with the quality of them at all...and from what ive been told at the range by a few enthusiasts, the quality control at AIA is to a very high standard. All hand assembled and tested etc apparently.

I dont do any reloading, so i just use over the counter stuff. Expensive, but i rarely get to the range now days.
Consistantly shoot MOA and SLIGHTLY under using 168 prem match grade remington off a bench and using rests.
Trigger adjustment would make things easier, but I'm happy enough with that.
Only used it on the 100m range.....so dunno what its like at the 300 or 500....might find out some time this year hopefully!

Theres other blokes at the range that put me to shame with their riggs, shooting well under MOA with cheaper rifles...so i guess the argument is there about these things being pricey in comparison in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Pablo

Ive got a no 4 mk 4 US export model and im pretty darn happy with it.

Like you, i reckon its built solid as. Theres nothing wrong with the quality of them at all...and from what ive been told at the range by a few enthusiasts, the quality control at AIA is to a very high standard. All hand assembled and tested etc apparently.

I dont do any reloading, so i just use over the counter stuff. Expensive, but i rarely get to the range now days.
Consistantly shoot MOA and SLIGHTLY under using 168 prem match grade remington off a bench and using rests.
Trigger adjustment would make things easier, but I'm happy enough with that.
Only used it on the 100m range.....so dunno what its like at the 300 or 500....might find out some time this year hopefully!

Theres other blokes at the range that put me to shame with their riggs, shooting well under MOA with cheaper rifles...so i guess the argument is there about these things being pricey in comparison in that regard.

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Good to hear you have had success with your No4. Yes they are expensive and I can say they are going to get alot more expensive very soon. The economy of scale works against AIA and that is a shame. I have never thought about safety in shooting anything made by AIA but unfortunately one person wrote some very disparaging comments and brought up safety. If you need another one I suggest you or anyone buy it soon, prices are going up I am just not sure exactly when.

When i bought mine i justified the price by comparing it to a remington 700 varmint/tactical. They sell for the same price as the m10 and were my other option if i hadnt gone with the mk 4. So really the price isn't that bad anyways.

Factor in the 10 shot mag and the much nicer stock and iits worth it. The rem 700 varmint/tactical stocks are pretty ordinary.......yer looking at the 700p if you want a nice stock and thats 2 grand.

As for the bad press, seems that most complaints are feeding probs with the 7.62 x 39 models from the early 2000's and the occasional 7.62 x 51 with a crappy barrel from about the same period. I reckon 99% of people who own them love them and are happy. Most negative things ive read on the net have been from americans who have never seen or fired one and have heard from a friend of a friend who has a friend with a friend that ownes one who wasnt happy with it for some obscure reason.

Every time an aussie mag does an article on them its nothing but positive.

I'm in the heartland of the USA. I got mine form Gander Mountain a couple years ago for $700. Beautiful rifle. The wood matches, metal finish perfect, and mine works just fine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Pablo

When i bought mine i justified the price by comparing it to a remington 700 varmint/tactical. They sell for the same price as the m10 and were my other option if i hadnt gone with the mk 4. So really the price isn't that bad anyways.

Factor in the 10 shot mag and the much nicer stock and iits worth it. The rem 700 varmint/tactical stocks are pretty ordinary.......yer looking at the 700p if you want a nice stock and thats 2 grand.

As for the bad press, seems that most complaints are feeding probs with the 7.62 x 39 models from the early 2000's and the occasional 7.62 x 51 with a crappy barrel from about the same period. I reckon 99% of people who own them love them and are happy. Most negative things ive read on the net have been from americans who have never seen or fired one and have heard from a friend of a friend who has a friend with a friend that ownes one who wasnt happy with it for some obscure reason.

Every time an aussie mag does an article on them its nothing but positive.

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Thanks Pablo for your posting. The bad press came from one person only who from what he stated never handled or fired one. That type of "bad press" does no good at all. Before you "beak-off" about something you should at the least know what you are talking about. The mag. on the B2 I shot was very tight and I have heard this from owners of M10's also. Good you like yours and comments from people that have used them are always appreciated. From what I know the production by AIA in 2010 will be very limited and prices will increase due to that.

UPDATE>>> Talked to Bearhunter last night and he took the M10 apart and did a little "tuning" plus changed scopes. He believes part of our problem was the scope mounting (not the scope or mount) and hopes this will make things better. Didn't do any trigger work and now we will have to do some reloading with 112gr. CETME bullets to see if we can really get it to shoot consistently less than 1 MOA. Will post more after we shoot it again, this may be sometime from now as we have two shows to attend and hopefully will be too broke from finding a few great rifles to buy powder??

I own No 14 of 25 of the original AIA M10 *T's. Mine was a Prototype/trials unit and has a couple of extra bits, including original L42A1 aluminuim bedding, fully floated full length fore end, monte carlo stock and is fully blued bar the trigger gaurd. The Barrel is also 25mm like the B2 Match rifles. There was originally 26 of the *T reciever sets made but one was rejected on the grounds the stock bolt assembly was 3mm out of square. Kyle Hadley, who is very helpfull, imformed me when i got mine,($1600AU unfired) I was entitled to a bedding upgrade and possibly having a low line stock with a cheek piece made for my rig if i desired. Im also waiting for a reply regarding a Repro Sniper/Transit case for my rifle as its the least it deserves. Kyle also said, the only bloke allowed to work on the 9kg *T's is the managing director, who affectionatly calls them "his golf buggy babies". He is generally overseas and is quite a busy man. A hell of alot of development went into the production of this line of rifles,and mine is an exceptional performer to say the least.
Sabre Defence Industries in the US, were supposed to import them to the but did not happen. I think thats been covered.
Incidentally, I found No.16 in a shop an hour from where I live. That was a surprise, seeing how all the others 1 to 25 are either in AIAs Reference Collection or privatley bought. I believe JollyGreenSlug has one of these also. They are a very well made, accurate plus, desirable firearm. I believe a very good representation of what the next generation of service rifles could have been. And they also cut a fine figure no matter how you look at them.
The 7.62x39 units are a great weapon also.
I better shut up and re-post some photos of mine again! Cheers!

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Originally Posted by powdermonkey72

I own No 14 of 25 of the original AIA M10 *T's. Mine was a Prototype/trials unit and has a couple of extra bits, including original L42A1 aluminuim bedding, fully floated full length fore end, monte carlo stock and is fully blued bar the trigger gaurd. The Barrel is also 25mm like the B2 Match rifles. There was originally 26 of the *T reciever sets made but one was rejected on the grounds the stock bolt assembly was 3mm out of square. Kyle Hadley, who is very helpfull, imformed me when i got mine,($1600AU unfired) I was entitled to a bedding upgrade and possibly having a low line stock with a cheek piece made for my rig if i desired. Im also waiting for a reply regarding a Repro Sniper/Transit case for my rifle as its the least it deserves. Kyle also said, the only bloke allowed to work on the 9kg *T's is the managing director, who affectionatly calls them "his golf buggy babies". He is generally overseas and is quite a busy man. A hell of alot of development went into the production of this line of rifles,and mine is an exceptional performer to say the least.
Sabre Defence Industries in the US, were supposed to import them to the but did not happen. I think thats been covered.
Incidentally, I found No.16 in a shop an hour from where I live. That was a surprise, seeing how all the others 1 to 25 are either in AIAs Reference Collection or privatley bought. I believe JollyGreenSlug has one of these also. They are a very well made, accurate plus, desirable firearm. I believe a very good representation of what the next generation of service rifles could have been. And they also cut a fine figure no matter how you look at them.
The 7.62x39 units are a great weapon also.
I better shut up and re-post some photos of mine again! Cheers!

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Powdermonkey. Thanks for your posting and I have heard about the rifles that were prototype/trials but know it is viturally impossible to find one. I am so disappointed about not being able to get a rifle in 7.62 X 39 as it would be so inexpensive to shoot seeing as we have a abundance of this ammo here in Canada. I started all of this to try to give the guns built by AIA a fair and honest review by all concerned. Kyle has been more than helpful too me and great to deal with. I had a message from someone that a "39" is still available in a Gander Mountain outlet in the eastern US. Wish I could get it and so does bearhunter who like me was trying to get one into Canada. I found the negative comments about AIA and their rifles unacceptable especially considering the writer never owned or fired one. Stevo wrote a very good article on it.. he owns one and those are the type of posts I respect and put merit to.

I have a No4mk4 AIA, great rifle, well made, Have to take it to the range and test it out.

I would like to know why all the neg comments from 303british on these rifles. I got the impression he did't get a free rifle and boggered the supplier for that.

Pete

Pblatzz, sadly that is what seems to happen to most of the AIA rifles in Canada. They get left in the safe because they are just to pretty. What a waste.

I recently picked up a new in box, unfired AIA M-10A bolt action carbine in 7.62x39. It was originally ordered from Wolverine and from the August/2005 date on the literature in the box, it's one of the rifles delivered to the US that were so controversial and maybe not paid for. The seller, let it go for 15% off the store price and included shipping in the price. Nice discount.

The rifle is beautiful. Fit and finish are perfect. It is no longer unused though. It shoots South African, Chinese, Russian and Czech ammunition into an inch at 100 yards, if I do my part. Compared to an SKS, it is a dream to clean. Nice tight chamber so no escaping gasses back into the action. The chrome lined bore is nice to clean as well. It shoots each different manufacturers cartridges to different POIs but they all group tightly. This is all from a bench rest of course.

The fellow that originally bought it, thought it would be nice to have a bolt action chambered in 7.62x39. He soon got over his notion when he felt the weight and saw how pretty the wood is. I think, like many that he was afraid of marking it up. After all, it is a substantial investment when compared to an SKS. For a while, there were several of these on the CGN EE. Most were unfired. People found out that they had made an impulse buy and had something they were completely unfamiliar with or they were semi auto devotees and the rifles languished in the safes.

I couldn't really afford it but I've been looking for one of these since I first read about them close to ten years ago. In all honesty, I would have bought one from Wolverine if this deal hadn't come up. I'm actually surprised Wolverine isn't cleaned out yet. They only had 48 units in total. I will admit they are a bit pricey but they are the Cadillac of Lee Enfield clones.

I was originally going to scope this rifle but I think I will just leave the mounts in the package and use it as is.

There is one other issue, the mags are pinned to 5 rounds. I am going to take them in and have them engraved "FOR USE IN AIA M-10A ONLY". The same thing was done for their big brothers mags in 308Win when they started to bring in 20 round mags for them and they were OK as long as they were so marked. The same should apply for the M-10A mags. We'll see I guess. :)

I have one of the A2s. Bought it at Gander Mountain (USA) about two years ago. Three digit serial number. Modified by adding a scope and a cheek rest. 7.62x39

Great rifle but I wish I could find out what the true story was about how they got into the US. I was told that mine was one of fifty that made it in. Probably just a story. There was a Century International Arms bright orange unloaded breech indicator that came with the accessories kit.

Rifle looked unfired when I got it but not now. Turned down 1,000 USD for it.

A.F. Medic, get enfield303t to give you the whole story as told by the owner of AIA. He and I entertained the idea of bringing in a couple of dozen rifles and maybe flog them for just enough to get a free one for each of us. Our cost per rifle would have been over $1100Can by the time they got to our place. That means we would have had to sell them for $1320/rifle just to break even. Wolverine supplies must have gotten the existing rifles out of the US. 48 rifles. The original storey up here was that 250 pieces went into the states and none came into Canada. There is a Nato import mark under the barrel, just behind the brake. Looks like it was laser engraved in Australia. as it has an Australian acceptance mark as well. Wolverine is selling the for $780Can. They also say that's it, once their gone, no more. I also have the AIA M-10 B4 heavy barrel in 7.62x51. As enfield303t can verify, it will shoot surplus IVI ball into less than half an inch.

I have a lace on leather cheek pad for the 7.63x39 M-10A. I am looking for a cheek pad made out of teak, like the one that came with my other AIA. Both rifles, take mags that are common to other rifles. The M-10B4, shares an M14 mag but the two that come with it are only 10 rounders. The M-10A shares the same mags as the SKS D or AK47. Again, 10 round mags, pinned to 5 rounds. I will as mentioned get the mags engraved as being for the M-10A only and should be OK with removing the blocking pin. In Canada, bolt actions and 22 rim fire rifles don't have capacity restrictions.

There is one other thing. The M-10A1 has a 20 inch military weight bbl and the M-10A2 has a heavy target weight 16.25 inch bbl.

There is a "Note fo Customers in the United States of America"
I goes on to describe the Magnuson-Moss Act(public Law 93-637) and that US importers wouldn't elected not to provide any written warranties. They did this along with AIA because of the limited amount of rifles involved it was cost prohibitive to try to comply with all state regulations.

Both of these rifles are extremely accurate, right out of the box. I was going to scope the M-10A but have changed my mind. It is very handy just the way it is.

The gun smith I know had picked up a cheek piece from another A1A . He asked me if I wanted it put on my A2. I said yes and now it it easier to use the scope as it aligneds perfectly with the eye.

Really designed to be a short range weapon in 7.62X39. I had a wood chuck at a measured 500 yards and I went through 20 rounds and the chuck never ducked! Could not see the bullet strike due to the clover in the field.

The A2 has a much shorter bbl than the A1 and IMHO, 500 yards would be quite a stretch for the 7.62x39 in its original loadings. Last June, I spent 3 days on my cousin's place in Southern Alberta. I shot over 1700+ rounds and quit counting hits at a thousand of the little tan colored rodents. His place is inundated with them. Mostly 22WMR but 6.5x55, 257Rob and 6PPC as well. I didn't even make a noticeable dent in the population. The magpies and crows were happy though. The A1 will probably go along this spring.
The A series and the B series receivers have identical outside dimensions. There is no reason that reloadable or even mislurp cases can't be loaded to higher pressures to achieve faster velocitis and with more streamlined bullets. I neve bothered with the SKS or Mini Mauser but with this AIA, that may just turn into a project.

A.F. Medic, if you beat me to it, please post your results. At ranges over 300 yards, especially in hot spring weather, mirage can make shooting difficult to say the least. We were shooting at 500 yard gongs while I was there and even if we hit them, it was hard to tell because of the mirage.

You say you turned down $1000 for your rifle. I think the same will happen here in Canada. They are uncommon and getting a reputation for their accuracy, repeatbility and reliability. They certainly draw the curious at the range and as I found out recently, in the field. The first comment after inspection and viewing of targets is "where can I get one?"

Because of the waterfalls of SKS rifles into North America over the last several years, people are surprised at how pricey the bolt actions are. They don't curl up their noses at the CZ offerings or even the Ruger but because the AIA rifles look like a fancy No4 LE, they are a bit taken off guard.

At the beginning of this thread, is an image of a target I shot, off a rest, at 100 yards.
The final shots were the ones around the center as I dialed in the scope.

Well I must say I am very tempted to buy one from Wolverine as they are a great gun and very inexpensive to shoot. Bearhunter has been "on my case" to get one and who knows I may "knuckle under". It really is a shame we never were able to get them into Canada years ago as it was a problem about legalities over the magazine and what the gun will accept as a magazine.

Many of the ones that ended up being sold in the US were modified to Canadian standards but they never were imported into Canada. I am not sure where Wolverine bought theirs as from the email I had from AIA it is very doubtful they came "thru" the US.

They certainly are impressive to shoot. I'm really looking forward to doing some in depth load research with mine. I dout that I will ever use it hunt with. I mentioned it to another fellow from a nearby city and he told me they won't allow them in milsurp shoots. I suspect, that would pretty much be the rule on most ranges.

Taking in the factor of their considerable weight, I can't really see them being used as hunting rifles.

A.F. Medic, thanks for posting a pic of your rifle. I like the look of it. especially the fore end. Mine has a fore end similar to the No 5 without the nose cap.
The Aaustralian International rifles are fantastic rifles and are price quite low for their real value. There will never be a lot of them in any of their variations in North America, because of some undeserved bad press and non payment for the original shipments. To bad, because for many it would be their only opportunity to get a custom grade rifle in 7.62x51 and 7.62x39. It's also abvious to most, that the rifles will accept either M14 or AK47 magazines, if that is an attractive option.

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

There will never be a lot of them in any of their variations in North America, because of some undeserved bad press and non payment for the original shipments.

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Unless they can get around this idea that the recievers were forged in vietnam and are likely to explode in your face i dont think they will ever gain any popularity. Too heavy to hunt with, not accurate enought to shoot fullbore with and beaten on price by most manufacturers, they are a firearm without a mission.

Having said that, i still want an M10 B2 :D

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Originally Posted by BushyFromOz

Unless they can get around this idea that the recievers were forged in vietnam and are likely to explode in your face i dont think they will ever gain any popularity. Too heavy to hunt with, not accurate enought to shoot fullbore with and beaten on price by most manufacturers, they are a firearm without a mission.

Having said that, i still want an M10 B2 :D

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Well personally I think the myth about not being accurate will fall by the wayside once bearhunter does alot of testing with various loads and bullet weights. Knowing bearhunter personally he has the determination to find out exactly what ammo this rifle wants to "eat" and will only be happy when he figures it out.

I talked to him about the gun a couple of days ago and using surplus ammo he did get a pretty good group . Handloads of the right bullet and powder I am sure will improve it to where the accuracy will be excellent.

I am sitting on the fence about buying one only from the expense end as there are a couple of other Lee Enfields I want (well dozens more to be honest) including a De Lisle with a great traceable history. I may succumb to the pressure from bearhunter to buy one having a good amount of surplus ammo but also using his expertise to figure out the "perfect" load.

I've been trying for 12 months to convince people how accurate these rifles can be. I may have been lucky with mine, but that thing is a great shooter. Even with factory ammo. I have noticed after it heats up it starts to lose some accuracy, but when you're only shooting 3 or 5 shot groups, its no big deal at all.

100m range, its a MOA rifle. Not sure what happens past that as ive never shot it past 100. And i never will. I've just sold it :( I needed some cash and had to pick a rifle to get rid of.....and theres no way im parting with any of my no 1's!

There are a lot of people that have strange ideas about what makes a firearm "strong". Regarding "forgings", it should be remembered that every 03 Springfield, M1 and M14 receiver started life as a forging; ditto their respective bolts. I doubt whether most people have ever seen the process nor comprehend the metallurgical advantages of forging. Perhaps they are confusing the process with sand-casting. That old casting technology is itself hugely removed from modern investment casting; as used widely in the gun and aerospace business.

ALL original Lee Enfield receivers and bolts started out as forgings as well. I have seen the drawings for the raw forgings before machining.

Regarding weight, If you want a serous lightweight hunting rifle, contact the nice folk at "Ultralight Arms" here (Ultra Light Arms - custom made rifles) and prepare to empty your wallet for a fine rifle.

Most Australian field shooting is done from 4WD vehicles or motorbikes. It is more a practice of pest destruction than "polite" hunting. That said, I do know a bloke who carried his B1 up and down a lot of hills last year to nail a nice red deer in Queensland. He came back with a nice hat-rack, a heap of venison, a mile-wide grin and nary a word about the weight of his rifle.

Those of us who grew up thinning the wild pig population of Australia with Lee Enfields, look askance at rifles with 4 and 5 shot magazines. Many of us adopted ex-mil semi-autos with detachable box mags to do the job better. One of my best deer was shot with a real TRW M-14 (one shot from a 10 round mag) about 3 years before our fearless leaders in Canberra decided that we were not sufficiently mature to engage in such activities without massive government supervision. Back we went to the 19th century, Lee Enfields and now, M-10s. Never forget, never forgive.

My apologies, i just re-read what i posted and i was a bit ambiguous.

I mean the myth that the forging were made in vietnam, thus making them inferior and therefore dangerous. I dont subscribe to this at all, just stating that this myth proposed by internet experts is doing the firearms reputation harm

I, perosnally however am very fond of the AIA ladies, and i would happily purchase one for myself - if i could show genuine reason to both the police and the wife.
:D

I won't go into this a long way but showing reason to the police, just makes my stomach boil. Australia must have a similar system to the UK.

Good luck my friends. One day you will have to take your police and government to task for their criminal attack on your rights and freedoms.

Its not that big of a deal here bearhunter. Its very easy to get a firearms license infact.
You just need a genuine reason to own a gun. Which is fair enough IMO.
All you have to do is join a target shooting, hunting or collecting club - that counts as a genuine reason to own a gun. Then you just have to do a half assed firearm handling safety test that takes about 2 hours and you qualify to have a firearm.
Really, thats pretty fair and not a big deal at all.

It only gets tricky when you want semi and auto weapons.....and theres really very few genuine reasons to own those.

I can think of some good reasons to own an auto and even stronger reason to own and use a semi and i am in the position to own and use a semi by law but get that by the regulations the police put in place is harder than getting a ride on the shuttle to space. Australia is not free we are subjects over governed and over policed.

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Originally Posted by Pablo

.....and theres really very few genuine reasons to own those.

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Except for the most important reason of all in a free society... because you can.

Anyways, I own an AIA rifle, and love it. Not a huge fan of the teak personally... would prefer walnut. But still a sweet gun and I'd recommend them to anyone.

Pablo, with all due respect, I can't even imagine maintaining such an attitude as yours. In Canada you would be considered part of the problem. Please don't take that as a personal insult. We are all allowed to our personal opinions. I would be willing to fight for your right to keep and speak yours or anyone else's for that matter. In Canada we are fighting hard to break down the bureaucracy you endorse and a couple of months back came within one vote in parliament to abolish our Long Gun Registry. Australian pictures and horror stories are one of the reasons we are fighting so hard for our god given personal rights to freedom of choice. We are also in a big battle right now to stop the bureaucrats from making a sham of our god given rights to defence of personal life, threats to our physical well being and personal property.

I suspect, many Australians rue the day those restrictions on freedom and intrusions into personal matters became enshrined by people that feel they have a right to put their thumb on other people.
I will stop right now before I get maudlin. Please have a good day and enjoy your sport while they let you.

Hey all we're wondering a bit off topic. To get back to the original subject I had my AIA up to the range a few weeks ago and managed a just sub MOA group using Hornady 168gr BTHP's. Not bad for failing light at the end of my shooting day.

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

Pablo, with all due respect, I can't even imagine maintaining such an attitude as yours. In Canada you would be considered part of the problem. Please don't take that as a personal insult. We are all allowed to our personal opinions. I would be willing to fight for your right to keep and speak yours or anyone else's for that matter. In Canada we are fighting hard to break down the bureaucracy you endorse and a couple of months back came within one vote in parliament to abolish our Long Gun Registry. Australian pictures and horror stories are one of the reasons we are fighting so hard for our god given personal rights to freedom of choice. We are also in a big battle right now to stop the bureaucrats from making a sham of our god given rights to defence of personal life, threats to our physical well being and personal property.

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Bearhunter, i have obviously got the wrong message across with what i posted. I, like most of you think shooters are treated like the scum of the earth just because we have an interest in firearms. We attract a kind of label that we don't deserve and are the whipping boys for many politicians looking to gain support by feeding on peoples misguided fears. On a smaller scale, you should see some of the faces my wifes friends pull when me owning guns comes up in conversations.
All i was trying to say in my post was i don't think its that big of a deal or that much to ask someone to join some form of a shooting club and take a safety test before you let them buy firearms. Surely you can appreciate that.
Theres 50 morons out there to every 1 bloke with brains so there has to be some form of control.( Even if its just a safety test) I know they have gone too far, like i said in my earlier post, by there not being many accepted genuine reasons to own auto and semi auto weapons. It's a shame too because people like me and you who are responsible and would treat such guns with respect will never get the chance to own one (i'd give my left nut for an M-14).
Sorry if you got the wrong impression of my post, but im def. not part of the problem!

Sub MOA, Now I'm excited....

I hate to say it but in all good humor, I will. I told you so.

If you guys can possibly afford one of these jewels, buy one. Don't procrastinate if you find one. Just buy it.

There are still a few for sale at Wolverine in Canada but when they're gone there won't be any more. In this case, the early bird gets the worm.

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

. In this case, the early bird gets the worm.

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The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese !!!