Question on handling an unhappy buyer

I recently sold a rifle on Auction Arms. The buyer decided that he was unhappy with it and wants to return it. The rifle was fairly represented on the auction with many clear closeup photos. The description was accurate. He didn't ask any questions, and now claims that it had been refinished. After he first received the rifle he asked if I had refinished it. I had not, and told him so. I bought it about fifteen years ago from a gun collector who I worked for. It was/is in excellent condition so I only shot it once. It has been a safe queen since. The dilemma is that if I don't refund his money, my 100% rating on AA may be in jeopardy (A+144). On the other hand, if I do, it will cost me AA fees, shipping and FFL transfer fees, not to mention the hassle. Was the rifle refinished, perhaps. It was not represented to me as refinished when I bought it, and I didn't suspect that it was. It is very clean, and looks original to me, but I don't claim to be an expert. I listed it for what I though was a very fair price after reviewing other similar rifles that were listed on various gun sites. Maybe he thought he was getting a steal, I don't know. Any helpful thoughts will be appreciated.

RBruce. As a somewhat limited buyer on AA and GB, but a 250+ buyer on eBay, I can tell you that as a buyer I ALWAYS check on a seller's score. Having said that, I would have absolutely no problem buying from someone with the reputation you have on AA. We (both buyers and sellers) know that you are NEVER going to please all of the people all of the time. Just add in your rebuttal to AA and let you record speak for itself. Blumax

Hi .... :)

Just my opinion, but with your postive rating, I also wouldn't have any problem buying from you, even with one unhappy camper leaving a negative feedback. I tend to put those into context of the whole. :thup:

Two questions:

1. Did your autcion ad imply any kind of inspection period and return policy on the item? If you didn't, then I'd offer to take it back as a sign of good faith, however, the buyer should be paying the AA fees, shipping and FFL transfer fees. :thup:

2. Can you post pics here of the item, which if members here view and confirm as you do that the rifle hasn't been refinished, perhaps that will help the buyer get over "buyer's remorse"?

Finally, sometimes it's not worth a fight, so maybe you could find out if there's a discount this buyer would take to keep the rifle and move on? I realize it feels "tacky" doing something you don't feel you need to do, but sometimes the cost of the fight to prove you're right, simply isn't worth the time and aggravation.

Regards,
Badger

Sometimes unscrupulous buyers will say they want to return a perfectly good item in an attempt to get you to drop the price. Seen it plenty of times on Ebay and other places.

1. Did your auction ad imply any kind of inspection period and return policy on the item? If you didn't, then I'd offer to take it back as a sign of good faith, however, the buyer should be paying the AA fees, shipping and FFL transfer fees. ans: no, but I have accepted returns in the past when I made an error.

2. Can you post pics here of the item, which if members here view and confirm as you do that the rifle hasn't been refinished, perhaps that will help the buyer get over "buyer's remorse"? ans: I can post the photos, however while I never considered that it was refinished, it is possible.

Here was my description. Some viewer suggested that I add the note about the W on the receiver. The buyer never asked about the rifle, nor did any of the several hundred viewers.

"Very nice Underwood with pouch and two Underwood magazines. SN 2460801 with barrel marked Underwood 11-43. NOTE: The W on the rear of the receiver indicates that it is a rare receiver manufactured for Underwood by Universal Windings Co."

I feel for you. I had the same exact thing happen on an item I sold recently. I think people get buyers remorse sometimes. That is a nice looking UEF though. I'd like to have it in my collection.

I can't beleive that the buyers not happy with it! Ask him why he thinks its a refinish, as you can't tell. If I saw a mint military weapon like that, my first question would be, "Is it a refinish?" So why didn't he ask?

On another thread on another website, I read about a situation similar to this where the individual had a complaint about the rifle. The seller accepted the return and when he got it back, parts had been swapped off of it. The buyer held it to get needed good condition parts and returned it with the worn parts of the rifle he owned.

I would be very careful in a transaction of this nature. I'm not saying this is what this fellow is doing but you never know.

I really feel sorry for you fellows in the US. That kind of crap just doesn't seem to go on in Canada. Now I've never dealt on any of your auction sites so I can't say one way or another but to tell the truth, the pics you showed aren't exactly decent representative pics. There are no decent overall shots or stock detail shots. That stock, looks very smooth, to me, for a wartime production finish. The buyer should have requested more pics. Personally, I wouldn't have bid on a so called excellent specimen with so few representative pictures. All in all, the old "Caveat Emptor" rule applies both ways. Buyer beware and Seller beware. I think you are telling the truth as you know it so don't get me wrong.

Unscrupulous individuals as described above would soon be booted off any Canadian sites, including this one.

I'm no expert either, but it looks redone to me. I don't know what it sold for, but enough to ask questions, I'm sure. I would have.

If you did not specifically state that finish is original or you are unsure of finish originality, then many will assume it is original, but they should still ask questions on a rifle they are buying "sight unseen". Hope that makes sense.

Should you take it back? Hard choice.

On a side note, I'm about to possibly jeopardize my A+ rating on GB. I don't have a large history, but I bought a 1903 buttplate, 100% checkered, and received a 1903a3 buttplate. Completely different from the pics. When asked, the seller said "only one I have, blah, blah, blah.

I search completed auctions and turned up an old auction with the IDENTICAL pics. This guy STOLE pics from another auction to represent his item! I asked him what was up with that, and haven't heard from him since. Even if he returns my money, he's still getting a big, fat F-! He could give me negative in return, I don't know.

I don't know if its right to give this guys username, but lets just say he's "in charge of a ship and a Kings son" in that order.

BEWARE!!! On GB, an A+ feedback score beside the persons username e.g., A+(342), DOES NOT mean they do not have negative feedback! Click on the feedback score and check. Even if it says 100%, they can still have negative feedback!

RBurce,
The carbine has been refinished. The biggest key is the brazing showing thru the parkerizing on the sandwiched trigger guard. Other parts show to be rounded over and punch marks show finish in them when they shouldnt in the pics as well. That said, this is a double edged sword.

Edge one, as a seller it is your responsibility to describe the item to the best of your ability. Generally, if you do not state the firearm has been refinished it is usually assumed to be original.

Edge two, the buyer should have some knoledge of the product he is buying. If the pics you posted here are representative of the pics posted on the auction he should have been able to tell it was refinished. He knew well enough that it had when he received it.

It is better to realise the mistake and move on. You stated you had no idea it was refinished. No harm no foul. See if you can minimize the loss. You have pics of what it looked like before it was shipped make sure it looks the same when you get it back. Check for any swapped out parts. Give him a refund for the winning bid and drive on. It happens, it is one of the unfortunate problems of dealing on the internet.

It's happened to me too, but over a piddling £9overcharge of postage to Italy! I sent him the cash by return which didn't (?) arrive so he wanted some more plus inconvenience money which meant he got the brand new L81 fore-end for £2..............! I called his bluff, got a crap feedback but left an explanation that covered it pretty well.

Call his bluff..............

Just to add insult to injury, he wanted a letter from the bank to confirm that I'd got him the Euros as I'd promised. Cost of bank letter...... £38!

feedback is just that feedback,,
one thing iv learned over the years of dealling on the net, is that you cant make them all happy, sometimes you just have to put your foot down and say NO.
one thing to be a nice guy, another to make the nice guy look like a putts.
heres whats happened to me...and this is one example.
sold a used M1A stock on Ebay, took lots of pics, over discribed the dings dents ect, and it was a Chicom stock to boot, and even said that.
said in my letters...SOLD AS IS WITH NO GUARANTEE,
guy gets it for 35.00 plus shipping, a week later he emails me and said it looks like it was drug behind the tank, i nicely say, that i showed all the damage, and explained that its sold as is,,,
he says he will negaive me and all that. so
i say, ok, send the stock back, ill refund your money, just to make you happy.
now, he wants the stock, but wants me to knock off 10.00 for the damage..
nope.
send it back, and ill refund, or keep it, and be done.
so he finds my number, and calls me, and happens to get me when in working, so im in no mood top deal with jerks..
and starts this...
explain to me how i sent this stock and thats beat up yadda yadda yadda..
so i take a breath, and say look, even though it was sold as is, i still offered to refund your money, and your not happy.
what more would you like me to do, fly out to NY and kiss your bleep??
he was kind of taken back by my responce, as most my emails were nice, and friendly, then to find out that im actually a jerk lol..
he said, no...ill send the stock out...thanks for being patiant..
he never sent the stock back, and never left me a feedback, this is when you could leave buyers a neg, on ebay.
all in all, try and resolve the issue, but stand your ground, tell him, hey, if you dont like the gun, resell it make a couple bucks...
say, i didnt get a warranty when i picked it up , and im not offering a warranty when im selling it.

Chuck I have always admired your knowlege of Mil Surps and now I admire your way of thinking. Bravo.

As an AA buyer, I watch pos and negs on the feedback...one or two negatives are informative but they are not deal breakers.

Can't tell you one way or the other...either way you choose to respond has it's risks. Live and learn and make your descriptions more resistant to issues of this nature in the future.

Good luck!

Your photos weren't the best but plenty good enough for a collector to know that the rifle has been refinished. If he didn't look, TS. I wouldn't even consider taking it back nor discounting it to him because you will get it back with all the pieces he wanted picked off it. If he is unhappy, he can always sell it.

I had a 3 digit Devine M1A that I sold after he received it he claimed that the barrel did not have the correct address on it and it was fake after comparing the receiver to pics on a website it was a devine receiver. I talked to the guy who I purchased it from. He told me no way was it fake and that in the 70s he ordered it in new for a customer and then he purchased it from that customer in the 80s for his personal collection. It was all USGI TRW parts a NM barrel and a winchester stock.I sent him his money back then he said he could not return it because I was not a FFL I arranged for a FFL to received it then he emailed me offering to keep for 500 less then he paid for it. lesson learned I never return the cash until I get the gun and it was a long time before I sold a gun long distance through GB

Caveat Emptor. I'd be telling the guy to move along and keep his mouth shut. It is too easy to get 'stiffed' when trying to be a nice guy. Your reputation matters, but your integrity is worth more. As many of the guys here are telling you, an argument over the internet is pointless. Real money and real goods talk. Lesson learned.

Personally I wouldn't return it but if the trader rating thing really bugs you maybe you could offer to refund if the buyer pays the shipping and any fees incurred. That would be more than fair in my opinion.

to add to this thread,,
over the last few weeks iv been cleaning house so to speak, selling off a bit of my parts.
so, i sell a rare Lyman target sight for a Marlin 1893, fetches 120.00..thats a deal as iv seen them bring almost 400.00.
anyway, guy that gets it, emails me and says he wants his money back, says it was ground on,.whatever...he sends it back, i refund his paypal,..and relist it..this time showing with a Mic, all the lengths,, ect,,my rule is,,,if you cant read the sold as is with no guarantee, i block you from bidding...well the guy trys to bid again on the same sight,,and emails me and asks why??i said mostly cuz he,s a moron,, and move on.
flash foward to the second one, i sell a G43 sniper scope, very cloudy, and i show pics of it,,lots of em,,guy gets it for less then 300.00 , emails me and says,,hey,,,its cloudy,.. really? duuuh,.send it back..ill sell it again...he says, howbout a little moneys back...nope...send it back, ill have it fixed, and then it will bring 500.00 like it should, and it wont cost me more then 75.00 to have the lens fixed..
so, its not a one time deal, they are everyplace......