I can not find anything about it. Has any body ever heard of a Franz Hinze Zerbst military rifle?
Maybe the auctioneer misread the name?
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I can not find anything about it. Has any body ever heard of a Franz Hinze Zerbst military rifle?
Maybe the auctioneer misread the name?
My guess would be that a former owner stamped or engraved his name on the rifle.
Zerbst is a town, in Germany, I believe. There was a Hitler Youth training camp there.
From a WW1 war memorial in Klieken, Anhalt-Zerbst district, Sachsen-Anhalt
Names of the fallen
...
Reservist
HINZE
Franz
03.04.1898
27.09.1918
...
I think you may have found one of the very, very few rifles that can be linked to a specific person. As Franz Hinze is recorded on the memorial, there may well still be town records with further information (unit etc). There are several Zinkes in the Zerbst telephone directory. As Zerbst is in former East Germany, i.e. an area with limited mobility after WW2, the chances are good that they are related.
That would make it very interesting = more valuable for some people!
Patrick
P.S. You didn't post a link to the auction so that we could all see what type of rifle you are talking about!
Patrick
just Google Franze Hinze Zerbst and the auction site comes up. a telephone directory is also listed.
Patrick - I just looked this up to clarify things, and I think this is the page bearhunter is referring to.
It's only a list of items with no photos.
SPORTSMAN AUCTION, WEDNESDAY - Corry, PA
Well, it looks like someone (not me, wrong country) needs to find out just what kind of a rifle that is. The trick is to do that without alerting the auctioneer that he might have something special.
Flying totally blind here, but there is no Hinze listed in Stoeckel as a gunmaker , so I would also guess that the one-time owner/user marked his name on the gun. Over to you A.F. Medic!
Patrick
Thanks for all the information. They did not post any images that I was aware of. I never thought about it being a personal rifle. I intend to be there but I could always be out bidded. I will take some pictures whether I get it or not.
You might come up with some info if you posted this over on the Greatwar forum site.....There are alot of Great war knowledgeable folks over there...chris3
Try here... Great War Forum -> Arms
+1 Good find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
In many cases this would be such a shot in the dark that the odds of actually finding information of a specific person would be small, not impossible. As a genealogy researcher (records researcher) I know stranger things have happened.
The water has been chummed. The sharks are circling. I predict a feeding frenzy for this rifle.
What bothers me.... is the fact that he died at age 20. How did the rifle get his name on it, engraved, stamped, crudely marked? He "fell" in combat during wartime. How did this rifle get back to his home, where it was subsequently brought home as booty after WW2 by a GI (of this we could make book with)...
Patrick - your find of this information could be one of those times. It could also be a "hint" at where to start looking to research the rifle's history. It's possible to do if you found a living relation in the same town.
It could also be that there have been 4,382 males named Franz Hinz in this same town since 1582.
I hope somebody scores this rifle and shares photos. It certainly sounds interesting. If you go to this auction you best take a pocket full of cash.
Dutch
The vital clue would be to have a picture of the rifle. It seems that the auctioneer does not have any knowledge of German Military rifles. As has been pointed out, there is no such thing as a Franz Zinke model, and in WW1 all rifles would have been clearly identifiable as from Mauser, Mannlicher etc. And you are quite right in doubting that a rifle carried by someone who fell in battle would have been preserved with the person's name on it. If it wasn't lost in the mud, it would simply have been returned to the armory and handed out again. Sons being named after fathers is very common, and Klieken is in what you would call the boondocks - a flatland area on the banks of the Elbe where mobility is low and sons take on the father's name, and often trade, for generations. So my guess,AFAIKTWAHTOIMH, is a guild gun, belonging to a great-great granddad of the Zinke clan in that area. In which case, it would have a maker's mark on it.
Such a pity that there is no picture, and the auctioneer doesn't seem to know what he has got. On the other hand, for any of you who have the time to stroll by the auction with a pocket of cash - maybe a rare opportunity!
Patrick
Putting in some images here. The name that started with a Z was on the left side of the barrel by the breech and the first two names were on the other side. Check out the size of the rear sight!!!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1978-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1979-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1980-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_1982-1.jpg
Looks like a WWI GEW98 straight bolt sported cut back stock? :confused:
Maybe an early "Banner Mauser" model?
Sling hole on trigger guard is for early WW1 type sling....
I don't think that rear sight is military. Perhaps a hunting commercial sight?
I can't tell clearly from the pics, but the knox form area seems scrubbed of usual military manufacturer with year markings?
Interesting story and possibilities .... :lol:
Regards,
Badger
No markings on the rifle for ID. Just the 2 names. Unknown caliber. Went for $260.00
Thanks for the pics A.F. Medic. Mores or less confirms my suspicions. The rifle is a professionally sporterized 98.
A backsight leaf with windage adjustment like that shown was sold 2 weeks ago on the German version of fleabay for about 50. Definitely a commercial backsight - see Olson, Chapter 7, the Mauser type "B". And if anyone out there has the book by John Speed "Mauser Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" they can probably find other similar-looking rifles.
Scrubbing off marks of origin and numbers that identify a weapon is, and always has been, a crime under German gun legislation. If the conversion was done in Germany, and military markings were removed as part of demilitarizaion, then the rifle would have to have the gunsmith's mark and/or name applied, and a new number.
So, narrowing down my previous guestimates, that is a professionally sporterized 98, converted by a licensed gunsmith Frank Zinke of Zerbst, between the wars, and there must be a number on it somewhere. He was probably a relative of the Franz Zinke who fell in WW1, and there may well be a "Franz Zinke the 99th" who would have been interested to see one of Grandpappy's rifles.
Alas! You did not buy it, so that is the end of an intriguing and enjoyable bit of speculation.
Patrick
Thanks Pat! We will let the story stand as you spoke it. I could have bought the rifle but I just wasn't comfortable.
It's a Gewehr 98 alright. It has the standard military barrel. The rear sight base is standard Gewehr 98. The top part just attaches to the Gewehr 98 base. I'd love to see a good photo of that sight and the attachment.
Dutch
Going by the example that was offered here (a pity I forgot to save it before the auction closed:dunno:), the windage-adjustable sight leaf was attached as a direct replacement for the standard Gew 98-type leaf.
I played with the idea of getting it, for my "you never know when it will come in handy" drawer*, but lost interest when it went above 50 euros plus postage.
I think the scaling portion is a kind of wrap-round for the original base, which would therefore not have to be disturbed. Easy to fit, if you have a set and need it. And easy to swap back, for instance for original-sights-only competitions. Oh dear, now I am talking mysef into needing such an item! Next time I see one (if ever!) I shall have to check on that drawer again!
Patrick
*That's a polite way of describing a cellar crammed to the ceiling.