M1 Carbine purchase help!

Hi everybody,
Im new to the forum and am in need of some help with a few things. Im am thinking about purchasing an Inland M1 Carbine for $549.99. I am new to collecting mil surps and have loved these ever since i first saw one and thought this was a decent price, compared to most everything iv'e seen online. It was originally marked for $899.99 but has been slowly going down over the last several months. The serial number is 5,25x,xxx and from my research it is supposedly made between Jan-Aug 1944.
The stock is poor-fair??? and has noticeable dings but is about the best ive seen around me. The only problem i have is on the right side of the butt stock there is a plastic plate that is nailed to the side of the butt stock with the number 77 and also the number 77 painted in white on the butt plate. Soooo... my two questions are....

1)Is this something the importer did (Century Arms I believe) or was this done as some military routine and...

2) If it is importer related, I would be removing it, so would the holes left from the nails decrease the value/ Is it worth the $550 anyway.

Also......
Do these usually come with ammo pouches and slings because this one does not and are original ones available.
It also looks like it has a bayonet lug and i would love to get one for it if i did purchase it.
Any help on any of this stuff would be much appreciated
Thanks.....

First of all... Your not going to get much help by posting this under the M1/M14 forum.

And over on the Carbine forum there is some kind of :madsmile: clan :madsmile: thing goin' on, so watch yourself! Just kidding.:rolleyes:

The carbine your looking at sounds like your average mixmaster. Make sure you check the barrel/muzzle, especially if it has been imported. Many are worn out.

As far as the stock, take the plate off, might be a nice cartouche under there, whatever floats your boat. But keep it, its part of the gun. As long as the stock has no big cracks in it.

Is it worth $550, I don't know, I haven't seen it. If its been in the shop that long offer them less. They want to get rid of it, thats why the price keeps dropping. Pics would help with determining value. If the stock isn't all cracked up (they all have dings) and the bore is shiny with a tight muzzle it might be worth $550. You never know what interesting part you might find mixed up in there. Offer them $450 and start pulling out cash. You never know. :D

Now, if we can get you moved over to the right forum. Someone else might feel like putting in their $.02!

:sos: Doug - We need a transfer! :sos:

UHHHHHHHHH this is the Cabine forum

Onaconnabecause I moved it :madsmile: :wave:

ok so I guess I've been moved to the right forum?
Sorry for crashing the system :p Thanks for responding and setting me straight:thup:.
In response to Mike D's post:
The problem with offering less money is this gun is at Dunhams so I dont think there are up for much wheelin and dealin. I have it on layaway right now and if i decide i dont want it I get my money back within 30 days which should give me enough time to do some research. I do plan on taking my bore light up there and making sure it isn't a smooth bore lol!
The stock or the hand guard was free of cracks and dont get me worng about the dings in the stock I prefer them as it adds to the character of the gun.
There were only 2 serial numbers that I could see, and they matched, 1 on the stock and one on, I believe the top of the bolt? or maybe the barrel tang( If thats what the back large part of the barrel just after the receiver is called) right under the word INLAND. I will try to go take a picture the guys up there are cool and I shouldnt have a problem doing that.
Thanks

Make sure there are NO import stamps or marks anywhere on the gun. If so, walk away and buy from CMP for the same or less without the import stamps!

Parts are not number matched. Look for import marks on barrel.Good luck and keep asking here. GK

Im not sure what you mean by parts are not number matched....the other parts without numbers?

CMP does not have any in stock but is accepting orders....does this mean i order one and then they get it for me or I have to wait inline with the 1,000 other people before me to get one whenever the get one in?
They also say that it is not sold with a magazine.....does any one know where I can get an original magazine the only ones I could find were repro and around $30. It also says "Bores will have some heavy pitting and exterior finish may show significant wear and some surface pitting. Muzzle will gauge over a three (3) on gauge." Im guessing bore pitting affects the rifling making it a poor shooter?What does : Muzzle will gauge over a three (3) on gauge mean?:dunno:
This will manly be a showcase gun other than the couple times a year I take it out to play(no more than 30-50 rounds a year) and id like it to be a good shooter. I dont want to overpay cause if i ever run in to a nicer one I would like to be able to get most my money back.
:dunno::runaway:
Is there anything specific I should be looking for...as far as what would increase or decrease this rifles value( mainly decrease...Ijust dont wanna get screwed!!!!)
Im officially dumb a$$ on CMP's site in BIG BOLD YELLOW letters says: Delivery time 2-months lol

If it is Import marked and the barrel is no good, keep your $550.

Import marked subtracts $100-150, my guess.

Muzzle gauge measures the wear on the muzzle, which has alot to do with accuracy. Over a 3, chances are it won't shoot great. Those CMP rack grades sound a little rough to me.

Carbine accessories are available everywhere. You won't have any trouble finding original items.

If the metal finish on your gun is in good shape, bore and muzzle are good, and there are no import marks, then $550 is OK. Plus you can do layaway.

Just need more info. Pics would really help you here.

I've got a service grade from CMP. Barrel has no pitting and guages 2.5. The only problem is the finish is poor. (so what?) Its a 6.7 million Inland and is easily restorable.

Well, he said in his first post that it is was imported by Century Arms, so that makes it "import marked". Imports are sometimes OK & sometimes not; I have never seen a CAI import that was decent. We already know it needs a new stock ($100-200), & I'm guessing it needs a new barrel ($300-400).

Muzzle wear can be measured with a "poor man's" muzzle wear gauge. Take a single round of USGI M2 ball .30-06 ammo, & stick it point first in the muzzle & measure how much copper jacket is showing: 5/16"=new, 1/4"= excellent, 1/8"= pretty good, & 0"=needs replacement. (It just might be worth your while to buy a real gauge, as the cost is far less than replacing a bad barrel.)

CMP does not list rifles that they do not have in their warehouse. However, all they have now are rack grades, which should be avoided because they are worn out. They DO have slightly rusty USGI 15 rd mags @ $15, which you should buy.

Check the auctions on Gunbroker, check local gunshops, & check gunshows. Keep looking, & don't settle for junk.

Neal

Actually the "Mash Az" Underwood I had was a Century Import and it was excellent with less than 2 ME and a pristine bore, and the stock was stamped with the Underwood serial number on the left side.

As for the CMP Rackers, I got an Inland Racker, they can be good. It has a 1.5 ME

CMP Inland Racker SHOOTS! - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Some pics of the CMP Inland racker - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

WHen the stock was cracked, CMP sent me an I cut highwood RMC

Help with I cut stock markings: HELP developing - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Im not worried about replacing the stock, like I said I like the vintage look, but i will do a bore gauge check and also look through the bore with my bore light.
I'm still curious about the number 77 plastic plate nailed to the stock with 77 painted in white on the buttstock, if anyone has info on that id appreciate it.Will post pics of it soon....
Thanks eveyone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neal Myers

Well, he said in his first post that it is was imported by Century Arms, so that makes it "import marked". Imports are sometimes OK & sometimes not; I have never seen a CAI import that was decent. We already know it needs a new stock ($100-200), & I'm guessing it needs a new barrel ($300-400).

Muzzle wear can be measured with a "poor man's" muzzle wear gauge. Take a single round of USGI M2 ball .30-06 ammo, & stick it point first in the muzzle & measure how much copper jacket is showing: 5/16"=new, 1/4"= excellent, 1/8"= pretty good, & 0"=needs replacement. (It just might be worth your while to buy a real gauge, as the cost is far less than replacing a bad barrel.)

CMP does not list rifles that they do not have in their warehouse. However, all they have now are rack grades, which should be avoided because they are worn out. They DO have slightly rusty USGI 15 rd mags @ $15, which you should buy.

Check the auctions on Gunbroker, check local gunshops, & check gunshows. Keep looking, & don't settle for junk.

Neal

---

So if 1/4"is excellent an 1/8th is pretty good then 3/16" should be very good?
It's and inland CMP racker I got at the North store.

That should be great, about a 2, I believe.

I'm not sure how this is going to turn out cause it is the first time i've every uploaded pics.
The pic of the barrel isnt very good but i could only see 2 maybe 3 pitts in the bore 1 larger one and 2 small ones(the large one was maybe 1/16 of an inch.

For the poor mans gauge i used winchester FMJ .30-06 ammo I dont know if that makes a difference or not but it look like 1/4" of the case to me

The barrel is also marked Inland up by the front sight....and there is a stamp on the stock next to the plate that I didnt see before....still have no idea what the 77 means...

Im think im pretty set on buying it unless some one could tell me otherwise.
Any all input accepted

thanks hope this pics turned out ok....I had to re-size them:dancingbanana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulls-I_24

Im not worried about replacing the stock, like I said I like the vintage look, but i will do a bore gauge check and also look through the bore with my bore light.
I'm still curious about the number 77 plastic plate nailed to the stock with 77 painted in white on the buttstock, if anyone has info on that id appreciate it.Will post pics of it soon....
Thanks eveyone

---

Well, the number "77" is likely a unit marking from some place this carbine was deployed at, my Inland rack grade from CMP has white paint with the number 55 on the pistol grip of the stock.

If the bore is decent, even with an import mark, that price probably isn't too bad, the pictures of the stock look pretty decent, the bore looks good, the muzzle wear isn't bad, even with a non-military 30.06 round. Depending on your area of the country, that might be as good as you'll see locally.

The import mark only matters if you're buying it for a collectible firearm you plan to make money on, if you're just getting it for a shooter, that mark doesn't mean squat.

Don't take everything the CMP site has to say seriously, they're telling you it might be a long wait time, and that the condition might be horrible as a CYA. It may take some time to get yours, depending on the volume of orders they have to fill. I ordered one on Christmas Eve, got it on 21 January, so clearly they fill orders faster than they say on their page. They downplay condition so if they do send you a total POS, they warned you it could be, but I've yet to see a customer who was really unhappy that they didn't make it right, either with a new stock, or another carbine to replace the first one they got.
And the kicker is, if you buy from them, the profits they make get recycled into shooting programs all across the country.

From the serial number being stamped on the stock where it is, I would say i that is a Mash Az Israeli Civil Guard issued carbine brought back in by Century awhile back. (Kinda like "Neighborhood watch with a gun"). There should be traces of white paint in the serial number stamped in the stock, which should match the serial number on the weapon. You will likely find traces of black paint in nooks and crannies (mine had it around the front sight) and possibly a couple tiny Hebrew characters stamped on the top of the barrel under the hand guard.

I had an Underwood that looked just like it.

Can anyone put a final say on if its worth the $549.99?

And Were there Israeli accessories or were they given U.S. ones?

Bulls-I, with tax your at $577.00 or more. I don't think Dunhams will come down, at least they won't around hear. I think you would be lucky to sell it for that amount, with the import stamp on it. There is a possible large amount of carbines coming from Korea to the U.S. and with all the CMP rifles out there, prices on import/mixers may soften up. So I guess if it were me I would put the $577.00 towards something that will increase in value. Just .02 worth.....Frank

If the muzzle is 1/4" on an M2 ball, it is about a 1 or less. I say YES, as the Israelis took very good care of there weapons. Mine about the same metal finish and slightly better stock, and I gave about that much for mine. It was a great shooter. From what I could find out, Century just cleaned them up without messing with them. As for the Isrealis, they used USGI mags and replacement parts.

FWIW:
I would grab it for the un-messed-with-historical-artifact cool factor.
There's market value and then there's history.
YMMV.

Being able to see and handle the rifle is worth 50 bucks to me. With the CMP it is "luck of the draw". I have been very lucky with what the CMP has sent me.....chris3

If this was already posted, I guess i missed it, but the '77' is simply a rack number. Most 'Israelis' don't have that, and I definitely would get it off the carbine. They did take great care of their weapons, and they went by the US book when maintaining them. With the exception of the numbered stock and import mark, getting a nice Israeli is like getting one right out of a National Guard armory. Of all the imports, the Israelis are the least messed-with and usually the best condition.

Well, Inland44 just stole my $.02 input on the stock plate.
Some countries/units just painted rack numbers on.
If it feels right to you, I'd say go for it. It's not a life altering decision.......
Enjoy it while you've got it. You can always unload it later if you change your mind.
Better one in your hand than wishing later that you had one..

Besides the "77" marked plate it also has "77" painted on the buttstock in white...
If not from Israel where do you think it is from?

With it being a Century and having the Serial number stamped on the stock where it is. and the style of numbers used, I would say 99.999% chance Israel. Look under the handguard, there may be two Hebrew characters stamoed there, VERY TINY. Almost need a jewelers loop.

If I hadN'T received such a sweet CMP Inland with an I cut, high wood stock, I would not have sold mine. I am only able to support one at a time, DARN!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulls-I_24

Besides the "77" marked plate it also has "77" painted on the buttstock in white...
If not from Israel where do you think it is from?

---

It's from Israel - it just has a rack number that would be unexpected, not impossible.