Anyone here ever seen a Russian PSM pistol ?

Cute little all steel(except for the aluminium grip) semi auto pistol in 5.45x17.9mm calibre.I am trying to find out which year the P(Cyrillic) denotes.Full serial is(in LATIN letters)RG 1831 P.
I have the pistol,an East German convertible belt/shoulder holster with flap and attached single mag pouch.3 36 rd boxes of ammo(one of Tula "commercial" and 2 NO HEADSTAMP military Ball) and 3 magazines(one in the pistol and one in the holster plus an extraneous spare)
Steel portion is in about 98 pct condition but the anodized aluminium grip wears just by looking at it.They are in about 80 pct condition.
I understand that in the US this pistol is classified as an"ASSASSINATION PISTOL"or some such BATFE pipe dream. No doubt inspired by smoking recreational botanicals or noxious white powders from the EVIDENCE LOCKERS AGAIN.

It will ALSO punch through something like FIFTY thicknesses of ARAMID/KEVLAR I am told on good authority.Something about a tungsten penetrator that lives in a lead matrix inside the little truncated cone projectile.

All in all a VERY interesting little pistol that is about 3/4 of an inch thick and leaves next to NO"visible panty line" when you have one in your pocket.

Anyone have any ideas as to WHICH YEAR that P code denotes ?JR

Yes. Was able to loose off a few rounds of remaining ammunition some years back at my local East German pistol club. T´was issued in limited quantities to higher ranks of the East German "Volkspolizei" and was legal here until the recent new gun laws here in Germany placed it on the verboten list. The ammunition is rated slightly higher than 6.35 Browning. I wouldn´t be inclined to believe all the armour piercing myths thata bound.

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Originally Posted by villiers

Yes. Was able to loose off a few rounds of remaining ammunition some years back at my local East German pistol club. T´was issued in limited quantities to higher ranks of the East German "Volkspolizei" and was legal here until the recent new gun laws here in Germany placed it on the verboten list. The ammunition is rated slightly higher than 6.35 Browning. I wouldn´t be inclined to believe all the armour piercing myths thata bound.

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Gruess Gott !

Actually,the spare mags,ammo,holster and manuals in German and Russian ALL came from a FEMALE Oberst of the Stasi.Her husband was a Captain in the Vopos and when a former friend from the then WEST German police went to their home for dinner while visiting some "Ossie" friends mentioned that a friend in Kanada needed some spare mags etc and maybe some ammo,Frau Oberst(in ?) went upstairs and came back with all the stuff I have now except the pistol itself with ONE magazine. This was AFTER unification and she and her husband were out of their previous jobs.She apparently had turned in her pistol as per orders BUT kept all the accessories.Thankfully I wound up with all of them.

I sold one mag and one box of 36 rds to a big Russian Pistol Collector from the US who came to Vancouver solely to pick up the ammo and spare mag.

I was surprised, but when he explained the bit about how the oberarschloch waffen gestapo in the US had decided that the PSM is an"assassination weapon" I saw why he had to go to the lengths that he did to accessorize his.Oddly enough HIS pistol is with SIX digits of my own.

It was a Police Ballistics techie who told me about the penetration abilities of the little 5.45x17.9mm projectile,The pistols ARE cute and will do for you IF you get hit properly.But then so will a .22RF Walther PPK.

Remember that the Russian Butcher M/Gen Vassili Blokhin PERSONALLY shot +/- 6K Polish Officers HIMSELF, with a Walther Typ 2 in 6.35mm during the Katyn Forest slaughter.He preferred the 6.35mm Walthers(he had a BOXFULL all cleaned and loaded before he went to"work" every night).Blokhin used them in PREFERENCE to the 6.35mm Tula Korovin it is said.

Swine ALSO committed suicide shortly after Stalin was helped out of this world by Beria and Khruschov while laying on the floor of his dacha paralysed after a stroke.

Tchuess,

JR

And Grüß Gott to you, John!

I asked a Russian Air Force commander if he´d be willing to sell me his service pistol just after German re-unification. He laughed and said he couldn´t. Although he said he could arrange the sale of a skip full and also wanted me to swap the `copter in the background for a Mecedes.

Gruess Gott/Gruetzi etc to you too !
Personally I'll take that cute little high wing taildragger you've got there.At least I could get home in one piece in that and not the ugly Avtur burning job with the big Isotovs.

What IS the little bird ? My airphoto recognition skills have deteriorated over time.Is it a L-4 or a Brit Auster of some sort ?Whatever it is I'll take one.

That Russian Polkovnik probably had a PM Makarov anyway.I have 4 of them one by each maker i.e., Russian,East German.Bulgarian and Chinese as well as the little PSM.I wouldn't MIND a PS Stetchkin but none around at least not LEGAL ones.

Cheers/Tchuess.

John

`Tis a Piper L4 (1944 straight out of the crate and off to the Autubahn near Torgau before being decommssioned and sold off to the Swiss).

So here´s one of the Polish CSS13 licence built Po2 (Polikarpov Podva) together with a very nice (but very strict) Polish glider instructor. I apologize for having been under the influence of vodka for breakfast).

PS

There are some advantages of living in Eastern Europe.

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Originally Posted by villiers

`Tis a Piper L4 (1944 straight out of the crate and off to the Autubahn near Torgau before being decommssioned and sold off to the Swiss).

So here´s one of the Polish CSS13 licence built Po2 (Polikarpov Podva) together with a very nice (but very strict) Polish glider instructor. I apologize for having been under the influence of vodka for breakfast).

PS

There are some advantages of living in Eastern Europe.

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Pity that airframe isn't a side by each instead of a tandem isn't it ?

Shades of the "nachthexen mit nahemaschinen" on the Ostfront.Why is a GLIDER instructor flying backseat in a 99hp POWERED aircraft? Sehr SCHOEN too !!

What would a REALLY GOOD Po-2 go for over there in the East nowadays ?

Assuming that spares are still readily available etc. I once had a turn at the yoke in an An-2 and that GREAT BIG HONKING RADIAL(that kills avgas like nothing else I EVER had to fill up out of my OWN POCKET) was a JOY to fly if a trifle expensive fuelwise.Once upon a time I ALMOST got involved in flying one of 3 Bombay Flying Club Tiger Moths CROSS COUNTRY from India to England(late 1960's this was) but couldn't get the time off to do it.Never did follow up and hear how it went either.Would have been a BLAST to say the very least.

You REALLY need a Red Army leather flying jacket and helmet to fly that kukuruzhnik in style though.Maybe a PPSh-41 and a TT-33 to discourage anyone shooting UP at you too.The tchorniy barishch you already got in the back seat !

Dosvidaniyah Tovarishch

I.I.(as in Ivan Ivanovitch) Robertonski,Polkovnik

The Soviet system had the aircraft type entered in the pilot´s licence so that when an aircraft was declared obsolete, it was struck off the licence and could no longer be flown. Result was that the type was immediately destroyed. The Poles then needed a Po2 for their film industry and ordered parts from the original factories. As they could only order a batch, they ended up with surplus parts. The old ladies who did the covering were still at the factory when I visited with the L4. The girl let me fly the Po as I let her fly the Cub.

I have manuals for the PSM on pdf if you need them. One repair manual and one field manual. Unfortunately, both are in Russian. Very well illustrated, though. Send me a PM if you want copies.

While the pistol in question may not be importable based on the "points system", there is no such thing as an "assassination pistol" in the ATF regs. There IS a prohibition against importation or possession of armor piercing ammo that can be fired in pistols, though. The 5.7 x 28 is a currently available pistol that was designed for an AP round, but that ammo is only sold to the military & LE.

Developed around the same time or later than the Soviet 5.45x17mm cartridge, the IMI 223 Urban cartridge is quite rare.
The 223 Urban has a 5.56mm 46 gr bullet at 1902 fps, case length is 22.95mm. Effective against most vests and design to remain inside the body and not be dangerous to others (inside aircraft too).
Weapons known are modified Mini-Uzi and Micro-Uzi machine pistols. While not as compact as the 5.45 Soviet, still an interesting cartridge