Unissued M1903O3A3's

The Wikipedia page for the M1903 rifle contains the following statement.

"In 1977, the Army located a rather large cache of un-issued M1903A3 rifles which were then issued to JROTC units as a replacement for their previously issued M1 Garand and M14 rifles, which were then returned to Army custody due to concerns about potential break-ins at high school JROTC armories."

Is there more information available pertaining to this event like where the cache was located and how many were found, etc? This probably helps explain why so many high serial numbered O3A3's are found in like-new condition today.

I'm skeptical about the statement's accuracy.

I am not aware of any M '03-A3 rifles issued to JROTC units that were not first demilitarized into drill rifles.

And I am not aware of any preponderance of unissued M '03-A3 drill rifles. Drill rifles that I've seen are overwhelmingly overhauled or well-used rifles.

J.B.

Wikipedia does not have a patent on accuracy. I made several corrections in thei M1903 Springfield listing. The originator must have gotten his info from Poyer or some other "reliable" source! :D

ok,
well, i doubt any JROTC ever were issued M14,s maybe, and Garands very few, and were issued well after the 03,s and A3,s but doubltful.
however..
the JROTC were issued 1903A3,s and 1903,s for drill use. and the rifle were modified for drill use,, not demilled.
to demill, is to cut into 3 parts, modify for drill use, is to weld, and plug the bore so a live round cant be fired.
but,. yes, many many new unissued A3,s were modified for DP.
over the years iv seen many, that were still crispy, and likely had never seen DP duty as well.
some of the barreled receivers i got were still full of grease, and new original bolts that had been welded shut.,,what a shame.
but still, in the military eye. a 15.00 rifle is cheaper to modify, then buying new {toy} rifles at 18.00 per rifle..
most of those had location tags, from the CA ROTC highschool units..and never were issued, likely the stocks were removed for rifles in use...hard use.

John/Chuck:

Back in 1978 I had sent DCM a very early case hardened 1903 receiver right at the end of their program where one could be turned in and for $15 (I think) they would send you a serviceable receiver back. After waiting several months I contacted them and was told yes, they had gotten my receiver, no they did not have any more to exchange and by the way they could not find my receiver in their stocks.

A few days later one of the DCM employees called me and advised that they had located some 03A3's that were being turned into drill rifles for ROTC and they had arranged to pull one and send it to me. Was that OK... sure it was!!

When the rifle came it was a flat new from stock Remington 03A3 that from every sign had never been issued or fired beyond proofing. No wear, no rebuild marks, correct match of blue vs. parkerized parts, everything marked R that should be, etc.

So, along with what Chuck says, I am inclined to give credence to the story cited in the first part of this thread. In my case, I just got lucky!

I personally dont doubt the accuracy of the article. I have seen a number of M1903/A3 Drill rifles that were in PRISTINE condition. They looked like unissued rifles were used to turn them into Drill rifles, and then not used at all after than... Quite a shame... (on that note, I have also seen an unissued WIN-13 that looked to be brand new before it was turned into a drill rifle. it also was unused...)

also, some rifles, both 1903 A3 , M1 garand, Krag, 17,s and M14,s were and are still being used for Honor guard, salute rifles.
the bolt guns dont need any real modifications, but the gas operated rifles sometime were modified for blank firing.
some of these rifles, are in great shape on the outside, and crusty rusty on the inside.
but then, iv seen them like new inside and out, all depends on how well, and who took care of them.

"well, i doubt any JROTC ever were issued M14,s maybe, and Garands very few, and were issued well after the 03,s and A3,s but doubltful.
however.."

However, when I was a student in the Houston ISD, all of the JROTC units had M1s. That was 1961-65 time frame. So schools were issued the M1 in significant number. Ours were fully functional and the prize accessory was to have a blank firing adapter so when on one of the 2-3 yearly weekend "manuevers" that were held, you could empty a full clip at the "bad guys".

I went to High School in Hawaii, graduated 1964. Honolulu had a very large JROTC program and we had nice Garands at all the schools. My High School had 500 Garands. The Senior Cadets drew a rack of 10 rifles and fired the Train Fire I Course at Schofield Barracks in 1964. It was huge fun and I fell in love with Garands right then and there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

ok,
well, i doubt any JROTC ever were issued M14,s maybe, and Garands very few, and were issued well after the 03,s and A3,s but doubltful.
however..
the JROTC were issued 1903A3,s and 1903,s for drill use. and the rifle were modified for drill use,, not demilled.
to demill, is to cut into 3 parts, modify for drill use, is to weld, and plug the bore so a live round cant be fired.
but,. yes, many many new unissued A3,s were modified for DP.
over the years iv seen many, that were still crispy, and likely had never seen DP duty as well.
some of the barreled receivers i got were still full of grease, and new original bolts that had been welded shut.,,what a shame.
but still, in the military eye. a 15.00 rifle is cheaper to modify, then buying new {toy} rifles at 18.00 per rifle..
most of those had location tags, from the CA ROTC highschool units..and never were issued, likely the stocks were removed for rifles in use...hard use.

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The high school JROTC where my children attended had M14's.

J.B.

I was told several times by my local ffl dealer that he went to Central High school in Omaha Nebraska and that they had M14s in ROTC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Beard

The high school JROTC where my children attended had M14's.

J.B.

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!973, Memphis TN, M14's. Ready to go but for firing pins. The armory was about 20x30 feet and 3 walls were lined with them in 2 rows. I'm sure they aren't there now!

FWIW,

Emri

sad, but within the next few years...NO Drill rifles will be used in Schools..only toy rifles...Daisy makes one now for just that reason.
little by little, they will be gone..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

sad, but within the next few years...NO Drill rifles will be used in Schools..only toy rifles...Daisy makes one now for just that reason.
little by little, they will be gone..

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If using toy rifles keeps the military from welding or chopping up real rifles, then I'm all for it!

J.B.

JB- I hate to tell you but there are real problems with the turn-in of '03's. Seems they are slipping out the back door at Crane. I have also heard Crane has recently sold cut-up parts that included 03-A3 parts. Something not right at that facility.

My HS had M1s (way before M14s) for everybody. And a couple each M1919A4, M1911, M1 carbine, 60mm mortar, dummy rounds for everything. For classroom training. Juniors and Seniors got to shoot much of this in the summer. (5 rounds with the M1919A4). Should I presume that the current jrotc are equipped the same way with modern equipment ?

since the weapons have already been welded, cut, and all but distroyed, i say leave em with the ROTC,, but..
thanks to the spoiled brats at Colombine, having a weapon in, on or around school grounds is a crime.
thats whats killing the drill rifles, until that happened, most the Denver area schools had 1903,s and a few M1,s, then within months of the shooting, the DP rifles were removed from schools.
before too long, nation wide will be the same way..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

ok,
well, i doubt any JROTC ever were issued M14,s maybe, and Garands very few, and were issued well after the 03,s and A3,s but doubltful.
however..
the JROTC were issued 1903A3,s and 1903,s for drill use. and the rifle were modified for drill use,, not demilled.
to demill, is to cut into 3 parts, modify for drill use, is to weld, and plug the bore so a live round cant be fired.
but,. yes, many many new unissued A3,s were modified for DP.
over the years iv seen many, that were still crispy, and likely had never seen DP duty as well.
some of the barreled receivers i got were still full of grease, and new original bolts that had been welded shut.,,what a shame.
but still, in the military eye. a 15.00 rifle is cheaper to modify, then buying new {toy} rifles at 18.00 per rifle..
most of those had location tags, from the CA ROTC highschool units..and never were issued, likely the stocks were removed for rifles in use...hard use.

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Hey Chuck

Get a load of this JROTC USMC beauty/my daughter and her pristine M14!! :thup:
I had 4 of those M14's in my truck one day after a parade, but the Gunny made me give them :lol:back..

The military school that my father and I attended, Western Military Academy, was issued M1903-A3s for the JROTC cadets as early as the winter of 1944 (my dad graduated in 1944 and you can see the 'A3s in the photos in his yearbook). The 1903s previously issued to WMA were withdrawn in 1941-42. There must have been plenty of 'A3s available if there were sufficient numbers for JROTC units during the middle of WWII ( However, WMA had a pretty good armory during the war. The pictures in Dad's yearbook show a 37MM AT gun, BARs and a M1917 MG. Dad told me that he learned enough about the M1917 MG at WMA to be assigned to a machinegun section when he was a Marine replacement on Okinawa in May 1945). When I was at WMA we had M1s from 1968-70 and received M-14s in 1971. I can't get very excited about 'A3s - I see at least one new or near new example in nearly every Rock Island Auction Co. auction.

I was in JROTC from 1973 - 1976. Yes there were some Army units with M14s at that time. They liked the M14s because the buttplate rattled. Around 1976, there were replaced with 1903A3s. When my Navy unit received M1903A3s about 1970 they had not been demilled. It was up to the instructor and shop teacher to hammer a bolt into the barrel. Most were in great condition. In 1976, they were replaced with demilled, cut offs and bolts welded, plastic stock drill rifles. What a waste of money! In Army ROTC we had pluged M1903A3s still with cosmoline on them. I remember seeing SN 3,300,000 in the arms rack.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21104

Check out the 1953 ROTC Pic in the Garand picture of the day section.