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I've been reading up on PH6a sights at Service and TArget Rifle Sights ~ Parker-Hale and B.S.A.
who say the 6a was for long lees and charger loading lee enfields.
Is a charger loading enfield a particular type ie ccle, or does it mean any enfield that charges from a clip ie no1 mk3?
I'm not very familiar with enfields before no1's so the designations are a bit confusing.
It just means the Long rifles converted to charger loading.
The bracket needs to be different because there is no safety catch on the side of the action.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-2.jpg
Okaay, gotcha! thanks, now I get it...
Roger, you've no doubt already familiarized yourself with the Charger Loading Lee Enfield ( CLLE ), but I just thought I'd post photo's of two CLLE's that I currently own for your reference. Both of these rifles were converted in 1909 at Vickers Son & Maxim ( VSM ). One of these was then reissued in January of 1910 and is so stamped on the butt stock. That particular rifle also has an unworn bore that is just about mint. I think that both of these rifles are still sighted for the earlier Mk V or Mk VI cartridge The rear sights on each are differently graduated. and neither is marked for HV ammo. However, they both have the narrow front sight blade and have rear sights that are finely adjustable for bullet drift and elevation, so I would think that sighting them in for Mk VII ammo would be easily accomplished. Both of my rifles were missing their original clearing rods and rod retaining nuts, as per their official elimination in May of 1899, However I replaced these again because I didn't like the empty rod channels. The one rifle with the stenciled markings on the butt stock of "73" and "KWC" was probably used at King Williams College on The Isle Of Man by their OfficerTraining Program. It has a type 2 magazine and the other rifle has a type 3 magazine. FredQuote:
Originally Posted by RJW NZ
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/clle3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...08/CLLE2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6/Niles3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/Niles-1.jpg
double posting deleted by Fred
KWC. King William College Cadet Force. Located on the Isle of Man as I recall - if you didn't already know Fred. A long way from Nebraska
Oooops......... just read it and you DO know. Oh well, nothing lost, nothing gained!
Thanks Peter! King William College CADET FORCE, I didn't know the full designation and really only took an educated guess at what KWC meant. Thanks again! Yes, the rifle has traveled a Very long way, hasn't it? Fred
Cadet Force is not quite what it would have been called. Prior to the Second World War, it would have been the Officer Training Corps. Post WWII it will have been the Combined Cadet Force or CCF. I speak as a former member of the CCF - but not that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G.
Don't you just love the way these posts stray?
I like you dog Fred, but is that not a Gew98 in the photo with him? How off topic can you get?:lol: Oh, and NICE collection:D Thanks for sharing.
Yea, that's my best friend Niles, the American Bulldog. I just wanted to put him in here too since he was around the day I took the photos of the enfields back in the Sun Room. I should've placed an Enfield behind him eh? That certainly IS a GEW 98 though and it was found in a trench in the Argon after or during the battle of the Somme by the father in law of my wife. Her husband, who was considerably older than she was, died and left it and a lot of other German and American First World War stuff. She gave it to me upon our marriage years later. At the risk of momentarily getting too far off subject, I'm going to post a couple of better photo's here anyway of it just because it's a neat thing...like my dog Niles! :D Then, back to Enfields, I promise!!!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dogNiles-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../06/GEW3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../10/Gew5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../10/GEW2-1.jpg
Fred,
Very nice rifles and interesting photos. Thanks so much for posting them.
Recently I've been involved in some discussions with Roger Dennis at Karkee Web regarding the service longevity of the MLE series of rifles, so I was quite happy to see that photo of what appears to be a Home Guard, or other reserve unit, wearing what appears to be WW II battle dress.
Could you please tell me where you found this great photo?
We were wondering whether the Navy still had any Long Lees in service in WW II, so it was quite satisfying to discover proof they were indeed still being used at this late date, even if by another service. Hopefully your photo came from a book I can can track down a copy of.
Thanks again,
Terry
Thanks for the additional photos Fred. I do like your dog. If you are like me they are like having slightly hairy children (I belong to three dogs and two cats). And that is a very nice Gew98, especially having a known family history. Oddly as I am typing this my 1916 dated Spandau happens to be leaning in the corner not four feet from me. It is also a vet bring back unfortunately I do not know the history behind it. As has been said many times before if they could just talk.
Have to ask, the two MLE's in your photos with your two CLLE's, who made them, and of course, how do they shoot?
One MLE is a Mk I*, made by BSA in 1900. The rifle has no provisions for a clearing rod, having a solid stock. It was used by New Zealand troops and is so marked on the butt plate, "NZ" it's also marked with the date of 1901 on the butt tang. Probably the date it was issued to go to South Africa in the Boer War. There is a large "S" stamped into the butt tang and also in the butt socket. What this means is unknown to me. It has a beautiful bore and sharp rifling. However, I've never shot it. The other MLE is marked LSA Mk I with no date. It still has the original clearing rod and has a brass head screw with steel threads in the end of the clearing rod. Possibly to protect the threads. The rifle has no stamps in the stock anywhere and never did. It was a private purchase by someone and was meant for competition shooting. The came with a Parker G.9 target sight. but also retains the original long range volley sights. The bore is mint and as near as I can tell has had very few if any rounds put through it. The bolt face shows no wear at all. There are no bruises or dings in the stock and no wear on the butt plate. It has no lug on the front band to mount a stacking swivel, being intended to be placed in a rack on the rifle range and not in stack arms. The rear and front barrel bands are "in the white" as is the long range volley sight plate. I've not yet fired this rifle either. I know it's a shame, but my eyes are bad and cannot focus on the front and rear sights very well. Maybe the peep sight of the target sight will help. The other two rifles, the CLLE's, were both made by ENFIELD. One in 1896 and the other in 1899. I've never fired these either. I guess that I should fix up a 100 or 200 yard range out here on our property to try the rifles out. Seems a shame not to. Here are some photo's of the target MLE. and then of the New Zealand issued rifle which was purchased from a museum in New Zealand and brought back here years ago. It had a brass tag on it that is gone now but the four screw holes for it can still be seen in the stock. That rifle was also used in the first World War and quite possibly at Gallipoli. Then decades later, it was later issued to the 7th home guard for defense pending the expected invasion of NZ by the Japs in World War II and is so marked. After that, it went to a museum at some point. There are no Sold Out Of Service stamps on it anywhere and all of it's serial numbers are matching, the rifle never having been issued to a cadet program where the parts would've been mixed. These parts numbered are the bolt, the cocking piece, the rear sight, the barrel and the receiver.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/06/LS3-1.jpg
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Here is some of the other MLE
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...08/MLE17-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...08/MLE15-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/MLE8-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...31626921-1.jpg
Here is the butt tang of the CLLE made in 1896 and converted in 1909 with the mint bore that appears to have been issued to and used by the 25th City Of London (Frontiersmen) Battalion, Royal Fusiliers in the First World War who were a group of experienced big game hunters, adventurers, playboys, ranchers, English lords etc who's unit fought in Africa. The units commander was a friend of Theodore Roosevelt. Click on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_(F...oyal_Fusiliers
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ndonBatt-1.jpg
Terry, I cannot for the life of me remember where I found this picture. I might be able to do so though if I can access the original photo I copied onto "My Pictures" on another computer that has problems. It might have a code attached that will tell me something. I'll certainly let you know when I find it Terry. FredQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
Terry, I should've added that the photo was found on line. I must've done a search on Long Lee's, image or picture or photo of Long Lee Enfield, or same on Charger Loading Lee Enfield when I found the photo. I'll keep looking for you. I'm finding a lot more pictures! Cheers, Fred
Fred, I always love to see your beautiful Lees, Ray
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G.
What a guy!
I really do appreciate that as I'm much more comfortable with books than computers. Old dogs - New tricks syndrome?
Thanks again,
Terry
Well Thank you Ray! You're Very kind! I'm sorry for showing the same old photo's that you've seen before. I haven't taken any new ones yet though and just go to my photobucket for them when a photo is needed. I'm giving the New Zealand rifle to a buddy of mine on the 24th for the $1,000.00 that I still owe him for a loan to buy an old Kentucky rifle. He's giving me $400.00 cash on top of that too. He'll like it, but he doesn't know anything much about Enfields least of all about Long Lee's. I told him to read up on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by rayg
thanks for all these great posts Fred, somehow I haven't been able to find the thank you button, ... you have the most photographed fence post around I bet, lol, world famous in fact.
Well Roger, the old fence post and rails are no more. My wife told me that they were only good for leaning my old guns on and so she told...I mean asked me to tear them out. She said that I'd be happier that way because I could finally get to all that vegetation with the mower....and then plant a garden there. While I was at it, the wife asked me to get rid of the unsightly old rotten pile of cedar that we called a deck and build her a stone patio. So, now I have nothing to hang or rest my guns on outside anymore...sigh. Don't let your wives see this post or they might tell, I mean ask you to renovate something too! I think that I'll just sneak out and drive a post into the ground somewhere to use as a photo prop. She'll never see it!Quote:
Originally Posted by RJW NZ
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I meant to add to the above that the patio was a well deserved gift by me to her for buying me all of my Enfields for my most recent birthdays. Seems more than fair to me! What an understanding and Loving wife I have, eh? :cheers:
Fred, I never get tired of seeing them. You can post photos of them every week as far as I'm concerned. They are beauties, RayQuote:
Originally Posted by Fred G.
I prefer the fence post and natural vegetation. (unless it's taking over the entire property.) But, I like old barns and old rifles, too!
At least you've still allowed to have the rifles.