Enfield conversion to .223 or 7.62x39?

I've long toyed with the idea of an enfield plinker in a smaller caliber to get around the issues of 303 price and availability, much more of an issue here NZ, than in the US. I have a rifle with a worn out barrel that would be an ideal conversion. I've tried a no8 .22 but its not quite what I'm after.

Can anyone recommend a gunsmith in NZ who might be at home with a project like this?

I liked .223 because while in the US it was the cheapest by far of the bulk ammo at gunshows, but these days in NZ the main lean for cheap shooting seems to be 7.62x39.

I like target shooting (and don't hunt), but as yet don't compete, so ammo thats moderately accurate for paper shooting would be a good choice. I see comments that 7.62x39 is considerate accurate ( ie over on the website for enfield conversions for Special Interest Arms). The other concern will be availability, is there any foreseeable reason to think that either 223 or x39 will dry up and be expensive in the future?

I'd be interested in hearing anyones pros and cons and experience, thanks, much appreciated. R

My two bob's worth:

Anything is possible if you chuck enough time and money at it!

Things to consider:

Threading and chambering a barrel is the easy bit. If you only want a single-shot; no problem. However.........

Magazine models are a bit of a challenge. Because the lower part of a No4 receiver is effectively tapered to follow the profile of the .303 magazine, the choice of new magazines is a bit narrow (Boom...Tish). In 7.62 x 39, straight AK mags will not work because of their width. Mini-30 mags should require minimal work. Alternately, track down a stock of the single column "sporter" mags. As a last resort, grind the reinforcing plates off the sides of an AK mag. Making suitable front and rear catches is a further challenge. Some individuals have avoided this last step by fixing a Mini-30 mag inside a standard .303 mag casing; limited to 5 rounds that way. In 5.56, the AR-15 mag is out because it is too wide at the front to be set in the correct position for proper feeding. Mini-14 mags or the single-stack AK .223 mags are the go. Spring tension is also an issue. Mags for autos need fairly ferocious springs to ensure rounds are presented faster than the bolt can cycle. In a bolt action, this is not only not an issue, a heavy spring may cause excesive wear to the action. On top of that, when the bolt is worked slowly, rounds will pop up and misfeeds will occur. In all cases, the lips may need to be adjusted to allow good contact between the bolt face and the cartridge heads. See also magazine positioning. (must be as far forward as possible).

Then there is the fun part: extraction and ejection. The Lee Enfield was built around the .303 cartridge. The modification to 7.62 NATO was almost easy because the basic diameter of the case is vaguely similar, but more importantly, so is the length. Note that the claw on an L-42 extractor is somewhat wiger than the .303 model. Because the system relies on the case being dragged rearward with the rim riding against the left wall of the bolt-way, adapting the system to smaller diameter cartridges is a challenge. The extractor and bolt head need to be "adjusted" to allow the extractor claw to travel far enough to provide the side pressure as per above.

However, in the case of 5.56 x 45, this can get out of hand and result in a situation where the extreme front edge of the claw will not line up nicely with the ramp in the rear of the barrel and will try to enter the chamber. Effectively, a new extractor is required.

And then there is ejection. The ejector screw is not in the right place for either of your proposed cartridges. Essentially, it should be at a point a little bit more than the length of a complete round back from the breech face. At that point, there should also be a suitable cut-out as per the original to allow the case to drift a bit further left and so that the hardened ejector screw does not foul the bolt.

And then the is the solution as per AIA. have a bolt head with a specific extractor and a spring loaded plunger ejector, mounted in a bolt head with a collar surrounding the case head.

Cetain individuals in Australia have cheerfully silver-soldered "collars" onto bolt heads and fitted plunger ejectors. They work and I haven't heard of a blow-up yet, but it is not for the faint hearted or "technologically challenged".

Finally, there is the issue of the striker (firing pin to some). The standard striker and protrusion specs are fine for 7.62 x 39, but a recipe for "untidiness" involving ruptured primers in 5.56 x 45. The protrusion and diameter are excessive. As an absolute minimum, the tip should be adjusted to protrusion specs as per the AR-15. Ideally, the striker hole in the bolt head should be bushed and reduced to AR-15 spec and the striker tip adjusted accordingly.

Have fun!!

Special Interest Arms - Enfield Conversions

The classic #4 & #5 Enfield's have been updated to shoot the inexpensive and accurate 7.62x39 cartridge!

The converted gun uses interchangeable 5 and 10 round single stack AK-47 detachable magazines!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../MVC186S-1.jpg

This is the basic kit, modified bolt-head, new barrel, magazine adapter, and modified trigger guard.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

These might be of interest :

5.56 No. 4

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle - Surplusrifle.com

I have been thinking along the lines of a 7.08
Which I think would be easy as I think the all the 308 conversion bits should work. (except the barrel).
In France the restrictions on the type of license or permission are nearly all done on military calibers.

I have been thinking along the lines of a 7.08
Which I think would be easy as I think the all the 308 conversion bits should work. (except the barrel).
In France the restrictions on the type of license or permission are nearly all done on military calibers.


NOT REALLY REPEATING MT SELF JUST A GLITCH. BUT NOT AT MY END.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by read6737

I have been thinking along the lines of a 7.08

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I think the 7mm-08 runs at a little higher pressure than 308, 260Rem also.
Someone will elaborate further, esp. if I'm wrong..

Anyway, if that's the case, stresses on the action will be somewhat higher even though felt recoil is generally less.


OK- so I'm wrong as per Mr. Horton. I don't mind! And I really don't care what my post count is! Take it off altogther for all I care.

I have a converted rifle & have done some work on two other conversions.

For 7.62x39 a standard .303 barrel can be used by shortening at the chamber, re-threading & re-chambering. (I don't do this bit)
RJW - I'm in Auckland NZ

I have used two methods for the magazine;

1. VZ52/57 mag - requires grinding of feed lips in the action body.

2. Mini 30 5 round mag - excellent option - I folded a box & soldered to the trigger guard, set right forward. I also silver soldered a block to the mag release. The mag sits flush & feeds perfectly with no modification to the action.

The bolt head was modified by building up a rim with weld & milling (again not by me)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0079-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0077-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0076-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0078-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0075-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

I think the 7mm-08 runs at a little higher pressure than 308, 260Rem also.
Someone will elaborate further, esp. if I'm wrong..

Anyway, if that's the case, stresses on the action will be somewhat higher even though felt recoil is generally less.

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Yes I will elaborate :rolleyes: and stresses on the action will be somewhat "LOWER" :yikes:

.308 Win 52,000 CUP - 62,000 PSI
7mm-08 51,000 CUP - 61,000 PSI (lower) :slap:
.260 Rem 50,000 CUP - 60,000 PSI (even lower) :slap:

Armalon in the UK convert No4s for use with Pistol calibres & .223.

Armalon - Armalon AL42

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simon P

Armalon in the UK convert No4s for use with Pistol calibres & .223.

Armalon - Armalon AL42

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Well, shoot, that was a best kept secret! Thats a nice looking piece of enfield, how come I never heard of that before!!

I am in the process of converting a salvage grade No. 4 Mk. 1/3 to 7.62x39.
A piece of steel was silver brazed to a bolthead which had been turned back to the lug. This was then turned to correct diameter, counterbored, and faced off until the bolt could be closed. The .303 barrel was set back, rethreaded and rechambered. Relatively little reaming is required, because the front end of the .303 chamber is remarkably similar to the 7.62x39.
I have yet to install an extractor, or plunger ejector; bolthead is drilled for the ejector.
Rifle has been test fired, without incident.
It is my intent to use a Mini-30 magazine. I used one successfully in a Remington M700 conversion. In this conversion, the magazine was fixed, and loaded from the top like an ADL.
If anyone is interested in photos, pm your email address. Posting photos while on dialup is painful.

This sounds a very interesting rifle to shoot, please come back with a range report. My guess is that it might hold its usual good habits to 500 yards, but unlike the bigger load it might drop off after that, which is all good seeing as 99% of shooting is less than 500, so, sacrifice almost nothing and shoot all day long with buckets of ammo. 'oorah!

I like the ejector system, very simple.
Ive built a 7.62 x 39 (in 308 not 311) and was wondering about the ejector system.
Have been using it as a singleshot till I sorted out the ejection.
Did not just rechamber but used a brand new barrel blank and parkerised it rather than blueing - safer, easier and much cheaper

I sthere ANY reason we can't mail a bolt from USA to canda to have it worked on and then sent back? I'm sure there is but it's worth asking.

Does your state department consider it war materials? Canada might be anal about letting it in due to not knowing what the state department's policy is...I know we generally don't consider sending stuff to the US for work.

All firearms components are licensable items under ITAR and require an AES-ITN submission with Customs and Border Protection/Census at the very least. A bolt wouldn't require a permanent or temporary export license but is technically still a controlled item in the eyes of the US authorities.

Its a long shot but around these parts the 7.62x54r is the cheapest round around.