Printable View
I've been told these are auxiliary ammo pouches for the L4 Bren gun - and that the old .303 Bren mags will not fit in it. Can anybody confirm or deny that's what this thing is?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_5212-1.jpg
[IMG]http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...h/IMG_5214.jpg[/IMG]
Thanks in advance!
I don't know what it is! But so far as I recall, we never had aux pouches for the L4 magazines. The extra magazines were carried by the Bren gunners and in the normal pouches within the section. As the rifle and Bren mags were interchangeable, everyone just shared them around without the need for extras.
If the old curved Bren mags don't fit, then I'm lost. Anyone else got any ideas
The 'Bandolier' is indeed an early disposable 'auxiliary pouch' for the L4 Brens. I've had a number of discussions with Rog Dennis about the bandolier and the early days of Pattn 58 pouches. The problem was in the very early days of the introduction of the L1A1 SLR rifle and the L4 Bren's there occurred a slight oversight in how the new army was going to carry its ammunition.
You have to remember previously spare ammunition for the Lee Enfields was carried on 5 round chargers in 50 round bandoliers. You of course had the Bren pouches of the Pattn 37 and Pattn 44 webbing available to carry all the sections spare 30 round Bren mags. No problems there.
Along came the L1A1.... with it were 4 spare magazines per rifle..... these were put in the Bren pouches.... now you have displaced Bren mags with no where available to be stuffed into. So until the new larger pouches of the Pattn 58 were available this was an option. A disposable (yeah right) magazine bandolier that could carry four L4A1 magazines. Until recently no one had ever seen these little beasties.
Thats my tale and I'm sticking to it :-p
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4pouches-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...teryitem-1.jpg
The NEXT question must be '..... with your pouches full up with rifle magazines, where did these sit......... presumably on the chest, between the ammo pouches?
It's mind boggling..........
maybe they could be tied around the carriers leg like a leg holster! ;-)
All mine are all dated 1960 as are all others I have seen.
Anyone got any other dates ?
ATB Kevin
They are evidently constructed on the same lines as the utility pouches so presumably were worn in the same way - most commonly halter-style around the neck with the tape passed round the body.
Mk VII,
I think you're right about how how they are to be worn however, having tried it, I now understand why these things are disposeable. They sit so high they would be all but inaccessable to the soldier weaing them!
Cheers!
It actually reminds me of a Bandolier - the hooks are the same, the material is the same as those 2 inch mortar bandoliers seen recently - possibly ready loaded L4 Mags we were advised we would get in times of War?
I have two set of these pouches. British and Canadian. They are usually marked "back "and "front". Origially in the late 1930s the were designed to fit above the 37 patten webbing . Usually over the left shoulder and above the regular, left 37 patt Bren ammo pouch. Thus leaving the right shoulder free to fire the Brengun. Round the neck does not work. In the tops of the pouches are slots to carry approx 5 tracer rounds. Each pouch contains three 30 round Bren mags. I think the idea was the No2 on the Brengun team, unloaded the pouch on the back of the gunner and vise versa. You don't tend to see many of these auxiliery pouch sets. Soldiers found the webbing straps usefull for lashing other equipment and the sets get cut up. I see the comment curved Bren mags don't fit. These pouches need to be stretched. They were made tight to stop rattles. Magazines fit "bullits down" in these pouches. ( correct way if Bren, upside down if SLR)! I have a spare 37 patt neck strap if any one needs one.
Bren aux mag pouches eh............. I was serving from 1963 to a couple of years ago, through the Bren and L4 era and I never ever saw such items. I appreciate that the REME didn't got a lot of this all singing and dancing kit, but I was with the Infantry for a good deal/most of the time. I'd like to see a) a photo of it in use. A staged photo would do and b) anywhere that this bit of kit is mentioned. I can't fins any mention of it in the parts list, the EMER, importantly, the Inf Training booklets where you'd expect to find it or anywhere else.
I checked the VAOS part number and it's not current or in the obsolescent list so........
The 60's era section machine guns were Brens and the curved mags don't seem to fit and the L4 Brens. Believe me, there's no shortage of magazine capacity then because the rifle and LMG mags were fully interchangeable and at every short pause you are taught to check magazines, equalise the ammo share-out, top up magazines, cheack other over for wounds and scrapes then drink some water. Every Infantryman knows that off by heart. And guess what, just in case you all think I'm being a bit of a dipstick................ Having been there, the very LAST thing that you want with a Bren Gun is to struggle getting tight magazines out of a pouch. Mind you, I could be wrong on that score
Me thinks it would be preferable to carry a box of 12 Bren mags, rather than two sets of aux pouches. Spoke to my local ACF Capt, 46 years in the ACF and brengun instructor. He has never seen the Bren or L4 version of these pouches. The only reference that I can find is for "The King and Country" Toy soldier Brengun team. Gunner and No2 have aux pouches. The gunner is also wearing the tool roll. Perhaps they were a good idea in theory but did not work? Over the years I have been collecting tools, transit chests and webbing to go with my Brenguns. Got a spare MK2 barrel and breach block in resin as well.
According to karkeeweb.com they are stores ref.A1/AA 1515 Pouch, Utility, Front with strap and S.F. A1/AA 1516 Pouch,Utility, Rear with loop. LoC B1624 could used ......worn over patt. '08 or patt.'37 web equipment. For use with Bren, Boys AT, and 2 in. OSB mortar. Of course it doesn't say if they were actually used or not, or just available.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm totally confused now :confused:.
The OP was asking about this item-
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...teryitem-1.jpg
These are nothing to do with Pattern 37 web.
ATB KG
2" Mortars only went out of service about 10 years (?) ago and I never saw them with 2" mortars either. I think that the bombs for the mortar came in a 3 pack horizontal throw away rack thinggy. We called the 2" mortar 'section artillery'
Indeed. If they are for L4 magazines, then they'll be an 'associated with' Pattern 1958 item. The good news is that a Pattern 1958 section appears to be in the pipeline for Karkeeweb, although it's currently a work in progress:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev G
Infantry Equipment, Pattern 1958
What about being pouches for a couple of rifle fired ENERGA grenades. Anyone tried? Mind you,I never saw them being used in that role either. An Energa didn't do anything that a 3.5 rocket couldn't do. I remember being taught how to derail a train with one......... A 3.5 rocket I mean as opposed to an Energa!
Is the 3.5" rocket, the Super Bazooka? If it is I've a practice round that missed a Churchill range target some years ago,before I knew what it was I thought it was fired from an aircraft its that big.
Just for fun, I do have a chest carrier for four 7.62 Bren magazines. It came with 4 NEW magazines.
But it looks nothing like the one pictured (a lot better made) and the magazines are in individual pockets
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sukey
I would say yours will be a Canadian C2 Bra, for the 30 round (Straight) magazines for the C2/C2A1 Automatic Rifle. Dose it look like this?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...NWebbing-1.jpg
Yes it does.