Saving Private Ryan - Slightly OT

Though, slightly on topic due to the number of M1 Carbines in the movie...

I just showed the first 35 minutes (beach invasion scene) of "Saving Private Ryan" to my 3rd period World History class. The assignment was two parts: One was a handout with particulars about the invasion and tactics from the movie. The second is to "write a letter home" where the student assumes the character of one of the combatants on either side. They write describing the horrors, fears, smells, sounds, etc.

As a whole, the class (all inner city kids) were first surprised that real war is so violent and bloody. They think it is TV news clips or a video game. Secondly, they are impressed by the courage and outright bravery of the men in the conflict. While many of the letters were written in inner city vernacular, many were insightful.

My wife teaches resource math to junior high students. She is constantly looking for more and innovative teaching methods to help her students. I admire yours. Question? Do you have any parents complain about subject material when showing Saving Private Ryan? Really good to see a teacher connect history with his students the way you do. My compliments. :beerchug:

Dude, get that curriculum taught in EVERY school!!!!

I knew I liked you for some reason RM....

Since I do not show the entire movie, but "selected scenes," I am able to show it without parental releases. I give the students the standard disclaimer about the guts and blood being fake, and bad language, but no one ever opts out. Besides they use worse language at school than in the movie. It is an inner city school.

Show them the second episode of Band of Brothers too.

Another great movie about courage during the war is "Die Brücke" (The Bridge). It is a German made movie from around 1960 about the desperation of the local 'Volkstrum' (old men and boys, some only armed with Panzerfaust or Panzerschreck weapons) protecting a bridge in their town from the advancing allies. Politics aside, these last reserves were fighting to protect their own homes and families.

While a low budget movie, it was gritty and makes you think. I have seen it with English dubbed in and German with sub-titles.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Another great movie about courage during the war is "Die Brücke" (The Bridge). It is a German made movie from around 1960 about the desperation of the local 'Volkstrum' (old men and boys, some only armed with Panzerfaust or Panzerschreck weapons) protecting a bridge in their town from the advancing allies. Politics aside, these last reserves were fighting to protect their own homes and families.

While a low budget movie, it was gritty and makes you think. I have seen it with English dubbed in and German with sub-titles.

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I have it on DVD. It and "Das Boot" are probably the two best movies about World War II from the German perspective.

Where did you find the English language version of Das Brucke on DVD? looked a while back and could not find it. Das Boot is great, also. I haven't seen that in years either.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Where did you find the English language version of Das Brucke on DVD? looked a while back and could not find it. Das Boot is great, also. I haven't seen that in years either.

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See Amazon.com: Used and New: The Bridge (Die Bruecke)

The DVD has both German with English subtitles and dubbed English. There is even a carbine in one scene!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../111pmcg-1.jpg

There are a few technical errors in the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan that diminish the accuracy of those scenes for me:

• The Normandy invasion fleet was the largest armada ever assembled, yet in the opening scene you see only a couple of landing craft. The horizon is empty, when it should have been crowded with vessels from LCVPs up to battleships. It makes it look like the Omaha beach landing was accomplished with a handful of landing craft without any support. Much later on there is a shot overlooking the beach with lots of CGI vessels unloading, but the in the opening scene the sea is strikingly empty.
• Spielberg set up the log ramp obstacles pointing the wrong way. The high end pointed towards the shore, but he had the high end pointed towards the sea.
  https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._CBK_CD1-1.jpg
  https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...markcomp-1.jpg
  
• While there were a few flame throwers that landed probably none of them got off the beach and there probably never was any flamethrower attack on a bunker as shown in the movie.

I noticed that about the log ramps also.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Another great movie about courage during the war is "Die Brücke" (The Bridge). It is a German made movie from around 1960 about the desperation of the local 'Volkstrum' (old men and boys, some only armed with Panzerfaust or Panzerschreck weapons) protecting a bridge in their town from the advancing allies. Politics aside, these last reserves were fighting to protect their own homes and families.

While a low budget movie, it was gritty and makes you think. I have seen it with English dubbed in and German with sub-titles.

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Hi Rangemaster,

the movie "Die Brücke" is a really great movie that makes you think after the sense of war. The first time i´ve seen it was in the 5th class at my school.
Now they made a new movie with the same stuff but it is nothing against the original. I have the Book of "Das Boot" if you like it let me know. It is a bit better than the movie for the reason that you have all the thaughts to read that you couldnt have in the movie. The First movie of " Im Westen nichts Neues" is great stuff in this direction too.

Regards

Gunner

SGT Eddie Nunes, Pathfinder 101st Airborne on DDay. Eddie had already received a Purple Heart when he was blown off a mountain by a German Mortar. After DDay he went to the Pacific and was cadre for the new 11th AB Division. There he participated in a jump onto Luzon and then into the bloody fight on Corrigador. After the war he babysat Gen Yama****a (the Tiger of Malaya) on his last night before he was hung. Eddie got to know the Gen and said he was a good guy and shouldn't have been hung, but we won they lost, the Brits wanted someone's head for Singapore. The consensus of opinion across the board by the Americans running the trials was that he had done nothing to deserve hanging, they even flew Yama****a's wife in to testify on his behalf, but MacArthur wanted a winning General removed.

Eddie said that everything was correct in that movie right down to the hand signals they used and the no bearing squeal of the German tanks. He told me that the Germans knew they were coming and had lighted every barn in the area on fire to see things better. And the sky was full of AA just like the movie. He was the last man out of the plane and only 200' up when he jumped, so he was the first to land. Brave men these guys.

History is written by the "winners." As a History teacher, this is sometimes unfortunate. I have read primary source materials from both sides of different conflicts: Civil War, Indian Wars, Spanish American War, World War 1 & 2. The story is generally a combination of the two sides...

Some years after the war (when I was a kid) , my father (who served on Iwo Jima) worked with a former Luftwaffe ME109 pilot who emigrated to this country after being released from a POW camp here (he was shot down over the English Channel and picked up by US Navy). They were friends and compared notes sometimes on the war.

One of my favorite lines comes from the first release of All 'Quiet on the Western Front" WHERE THE SOLDIERS COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WARS SHOULD BE FOUGHT IN A FIELD BY LEADERS IN THEIR UNDERWEAR WITH CLUBS! This would free them men of both sides to continue their lives.

definitely "OT" but your class might also find motivation in "War Dogs" too. OK so I'm a dog nut

in the Großdeutschland Division. He fought in Russia and against the US. When I was first starting out with the phone co as a lineman in 1964, he was getting promoted, 19 years after the war! Boy were those guys ****ed off about that. I guess I would be too. He and I had some wonderful talks about what he saw in that big war. I was lucky to have worked with so many Marines, Army and pilots who fought in the big one. Having a person describe what it was like to participate in a 1000 plane raid on Berlin and have a Me 262 come up after you, or bomb Tokyo in a B29, or be an observation plane over Tarawa directing naval gunfire......I just couldn't get enough.

[QUOTE=
[LIST][*]The Normandy invasion fleet was the largest armada ever assembled, yet in the opening scene you see only a couple of landing craft. The horizon is empty, when it should have been crowded with vessels from LCVPs up to battleships. It makes it look like the Omaha beach landing was accomplished with a handful of landing craft without any support. Much later on there is a shot overlooking the beach with lots of CGI vessels unloading, but the in the opening scene the sea is strikingly empty.QUOTE]

Actually the landing craft were dropped about ten to twelve miles out. It was about a two hour ride to the beach. You would not have seen the supporting craft from the beach just the landing vessels.

The gut with the carbine is wearing only a helmet liner and has a cartridge belt.

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Originally Posted by autorifle

Actually the landing craft were dropped about ten to twelve miles out. It was about a two hour ride to the beach. You would not have seen the supporting craft from the beach just the landing vessels.

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Still, there should have been more than 2 or 3 LCVPs visible in the opening shots. At least 5 destroyers came in close to the beach to take out strongpoints.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../s189988-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../s189987-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g421287-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g352840-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kn00570-1.jpg
Watercolor by Navy Combat Artist Dwight Shepler, 1944, showing USS Emmons (DD-457) bombarding in support of the "Omaha" Beach landings, on "D-Day" of the Normandy invasion, 6 June 1944.

Milsurp Collector,

I thought I was being 'nit-picky' but I agree. I figured it was a matter of practicality when I first watched the movie in the theater, but it looked like the whole landing was accomplished with only a couple of Higgins boats. I also noticed the tank traps being backwards - they were meant to tip a tank over. Spielberg is usually better about such details.

Maybe Spielberg wanted to only show mostly the landing craft on purpose, as if from the perpsective of the men aboard (?)
As I said, I thought when I first saw the opening scenes that maybe it was too costly/impracticable to show the plethora of ships and boats and other land craft that should have been in the background......
BUT, as correctly pointed out above, in the later scenes of the beach after the landings when Captain Miller (Hanks) was returning from a patrol and then receiving his orders to go looking for 'private Ryan' there were all manner of other boats in the beach background.

Perhaps it was a cinematic tool to increase the feeling of isolation of the first men on the beach. Or- It's just a movie- one that progressively goes downhill...More than once I've quit watching after the first bits. -Right around the time scopes get swapped is a good time bail out...

Yep, the scope thing, as other aspects of the A4 was disappointing for sure.

I just sat and watched it to the end again. Even with some errors that keep popping up each time I watch it, it's almost worth watching until the end to see the P-51's hit the tank Captain Miller is defiantly shooting with his 45.
(Just cool to me)

* New filming error I just noticed tonight in the final battle scene. When they throw the two 'sticky bombs' covered in axle grease and stick them on the road wheel of the faux Tiger tank, you can clearly see two axle grease spots the size of the sticky bombs showing where they had already filmed the sequence before, or done it before as practice and not cleaned off the grease.
(Yes, I've watched it too many time!) :madsmile:

I put the movie in just to review the ships in the first place -
After the taking of the beaches, and Miller returns from patrol for revised orders, the fleet in the background does appear. But I swear, as the scene goes on for a few mintutes more, you can still can view the sea in the background and the whole fleet disappears.

I know, I know, it's only a movie!
(I still think it's a great movie - Heck I only put the DVD in to review the beach scene, but watched it to the end again!)

There's a lot of things Spielberg got correct! I haven't seen Band of Brothers series in years and I just went into my little library and pulled it off the shelf. Think I'll watch it over the weekend. It's a special edition in a metal box and one of the original members of Easy Company signed it, so I keep it in a protective plastic sleeve on a shelf in my library to help protect the signature.

I have signed books in new condition and dedicated to my son from Tex Hill, Robert Morgan, and Paul Tibets that I also keep in clear plastic sleeve on my built-in shelves. My son got to know them all as sort of grandfather figures while he was growing up in CAF hangars, and I hope he appreciates it as he gets older. All three of these gentlemen were very nice to my son, (Who grew up a 'hangar rat') and they didn't ever talk about flying, but played pitch (baseball) and clowned around like grandpas do.

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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector

Still, there should have been more than 2 or 3 LCVPs visible in the opening shots. At least 5 destroyers came in close to the beach to take out strongpoints.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../s189988-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../s189987-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g421287-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g352840-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../kn00570-1.jpg
Watercolor by Navy Combat Artist Dwight Shepler, 1944, showing USS Emmons (DD-457) bombarding in support of the "Omaha" Beach landings, on "D-Day" of the Normandy invasion, 6 June 1944.

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I think those destroyers going in saved the invasion on Omaha.

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Originally Posted by cafdfw

I just sat and watched it to the end again. Even with some errors that keep popping up each time I watch it, it's almost worth watching until the end to see the P-51's hit the tank Captain Miller is defiantly shooting with his 45.
(Just cool to me)

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That reminds of another thing. Steven Spielberg must love P-51s (nothing wrong with that) and he features them whenever he can, such as in Empire of the Sun (yes, that is Christian Bale before he became Batman):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ouJ_WyS9v8

and in Saving Private Ryan after some P-51s destroy a Tiger tank without even mussing the hair of Captain Miller lying a few yards away, Private Ryan says "they're tank-busters sir, P-51s".

While the P-51 was an excellent long-range bomber escort, it wasn't really suited to the ground support role (because of its vulnerable radiator). The more rugged and heavily-armed but often-overlooked P-47 was the real USAAF tank buster Saving Private Ryan Movie Blooper

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../05/p472-1.jpg

Yep, the Jug was a tough old bird for certain!

There were many that returned with cylinders shot up, but the engine was still running.

I loved Empire of the Sun. I have it on DVD and have watched it many times.
It flopped at the box office from what I remember, but I think it was one of Spielbergs best war movies.

I talked to an old boy who flew a "Jug" in Europe after D-Day. He never fought in a single dogfight, but took out many a tank and train with the 8x .50 M2s and under wing rockets and bombs. As A kid, I had a 1/32 Revell model of a P47 in tank killer form. I had it paired up with an FW190, which I believe was far better than the ME109. As I recall, Wolfgang (the ex-Luftwaffe pilot my Dad worked with) flew an FW 190. It had a reputation of taking punishment like the Jug. He said he would have died if he had been in an ME109!