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I have asked this under another thread (regarding 1941 Long Branches), but this may deserve its own thread. Does anyone know what the purpose would be of having holes drilled in either side of the lower band on a No.4 Mk.1? I was told that it could have something to do with a grenade launcher, but the only photo I managed to find of a No.4 Mk.1 with a grenade launcher attached did not have anything fitted at the lower band. Any ideas?
I've heard that before too, it's from the Curry Continent, and yep, the no4 grenade launcher wouldn't use those holes. Be interesting to see a pic of what this mysterious device looked like in situ.
The holes were for fitting a grenade sight. The Indian launcher was a spigot type but did not have an integral sight like the British/Belgian item.
Steve, any idea when the Indian launcher was in use, and would you know the location of any photos of the beast in question?
Edit - I wonder how often, if at all, the Indian grenade launcher attachments turn up for sale? I would think they would be pretty rare outside of India (pretty rare too in India, then again, do they ever throw anything away?)
Editing the edit - I knew I had seen those holes before....Joe Salter has an Indian-issued No.4 Mk.1 with the holes in the lower band here:
http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=11360
India got into the spigot launching thing in 1944 using (I think) the US M9 grenade. The Brits followed in '45 with a launcher for the No.5 rifle and No.85 grenade and their launcher or "projector" for the No.4 was finally approved in 1952. There are pictures of the Indian launcher and sight in Edwards' book but I lack a scanner so I'm unable to steal them.
Thanks, Steve. I will just have to buy the book, not that I am complaining about that lol. I did notice that the rifle I bought doesn't have the Ishey screw, but can I assume that the Indians didn't modify every rifle with that feature (although I might have expected it on a rifle used for launching grenades)? The forend could have been replaced at a later date, of course, or the modified lower band could just be a spare one they had during a refurb. This is why I love these rifles - there are so many variations.
If the fore stock was fit for this band, there should be tapered cuts leading fore and aft of the holes in the band. Maybe 3/8" wide and 1/2" long either side, if memory serves correctly.
The taperd cuts are shown on the example Joe Salter has for sale. Unfortunately, I do not have a close-up photo of that area, so I will have to wait for the rifle to show up.
On a similar subject, just how rare/common are the No5 grenade launchers?
Peter the No.5 rifle spigot launcher is not common in the US. In my years of collecting, I have only seen and purchased one loose launcher. The strap on sight is just as uncommon as it was also used on the No.4s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I do have a complete No.5 rifle with sight and launcher that was used in some testing. The recoil was severe and with repeated use, the metal receiver socket battered the end of the stock causing the wood to splinter and mushroom. Other than the battering, the rifle is as new and was part of the Greener factory collection. I would post pictures but I can't seem to get the transfer from photobucket to work.
Springfield Sporters had Indian No.4 rifles with the stamped steel folding grenade launching and two different types of spigot launchers. They never sold the stamped sight alone.
The Pattern Room has copies of Indian Ordnance magazines. One Late 1944issue has a brief article on India's development of their grenade launching system using a US type M10 rifle grenade. Details on the launcher were minimal as I remember. If you think about the terrain the Indians fight in, the high angle fire grenade is a wonderful tool to get a "can of hurt" to the other side of a ridge. I can see why India kept the system in the inventory for such a long time. They give the infantryman pocket artillery capability.
Springfield Sporters has the Indian grenade launching sights and the modified lower bands. I have emailed them about the grenade launcher itself.
I can see the point that you (and the Indians) are making but the reason why we discontinued trials with actual grenade (as opposed to ENERGA) launching was because the 2" mortar was relegated (?) to the section and effectively became what we called 'section artillery'. especially when HE bombs were available. Alas, they weren't available after 1957ish. After that it was just white phos (to '61or so I believe), smoke and parachute flare.
This is a photo I found on another forum:
I am sure the 2 inch mortar was an improvement over the rifle grenade launcher system. I see the downside being that the two inch tube and accessories was another item that had to be carried along with personal weapons. The Indians had it all in one package.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I know practically nothing about the logistics of section tactics and weapons deployment, but I have had some experience traipsing around the Sierra Nevada mountain range that is in my backyard, which gives me a reasonable appreciation of some of the mountainuous terrain the Indian army has to travel over from time to time. I can understand why they would want to keep using a rifle grenade launcher instead of dragging a 2" mortar all over the place - extra weight can really slow you down, and even kill you if you are not careful. I know what I would prefer to lug around lol.