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Hello All! I'm a new member, have an interest in M1 carbines, relatively new to the topic. Now for my first question:
There is a GB posting 'M1 Carbine - National Postal Meter - Rare "U" code'. What do you think of it?
M1 Carbine - National Postal Meter - Rare "U" code : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Any comments? Is it faked, does anything look wrong with it? What would the value be?
Can't tell you anything about "U" but something about picture #15 looks suspicious to me
I think it should be a high wood.
Pictures 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14 and 16 look suspicious as well.
:)
Hey, I'm just a new bee :D
One does wonder why the sling swivel on the Type I and the push safety look brand new....
Take a few minutes and look at the GREEN TINT that's been applied to the metal in pictures .......
M1 Carbine - National Postal Meter - Rare "U" code : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Picture #
#2 on the Rear sight flipper and leaf spring
#6 on the barrel band spring. Some on the wood stock between the top of the barrel band spring and below the ring of the barrel band. Also on the barrel to try to hide some of the late bayo band shadow.
#7 On the front sight... including inside the holes on the outer ears... all the way to the muzzle end. This more than likely to try hiding the R and R of frt sights and barrel bands.
#16 Tint on the barrel band swivel, an attempt to give it that aged look.
Still any doubt....................
Look at this Stan Pro, offered by the same seller........
M1 Carbine - 1943 Standard Products w/H/W Stock : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
Picture #
#6-#7- #9 The trigger housing and the hammer.
#12 shows the tinted area in front of the band, Compare that to the color of the barrel where the Underwood marking is in pic #13. See how the tint won't lay over a thicker parked area?
#20 Front end of barrel at the edge of the muzzle you can see it pooled, didn't quite get it all wiped off.
#21 On the Barrel, barrel band and hit the front edge of the handguard with it.
There must be a market out there for tinting your metal green.
I love to gamble and would feel safe to let it ride that someone close to this seller has green stained fingers.
I'm just looking at overall finish color and wear. Not a mention of repro parts or faked stampings............ yet
ALL IN!
Charlie-painter777
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07007-1.jpg
Charlie, I am SHOCKED at you! You are actually going to say that some people are dishonest and will deliberately mislead others about the condition and historical accuracy of M-1 carbines? How dare you?!?!?!?!?! Why, every person I have ever met connected with a carbine has been them most upstanding and honest person. Didn't you know that the mere TOUCHING of a carbine by a person will cause the most crooked car dealer into a honest man? (It also cures herpes, cancer, lack of humor and bad breathe.)
Green fingers! Really! You sound as ridiculous as a some guy trying to pass off a totally rebuilt NPM as having original parts for over a $1,000.
We really need to have a talk....
It would appear to be a restoration. The push safety seems to have a "newer" finish, and the front sling swivel looks brand new. In photo 15 you can also spot the difference in the finish on the barrel where it was once fitted with a post war Type 3 band with bayonet lug. It's hard to see from the photos what the staking looks like on the rear sight, and whether that's original to the rifle or not.
There is a faint late band mark on the nose of the stock, too. Notice that there is no close up of what would be the edge of the late band shadow on the barrel. The green tint extends beyond that point.
Come on, it's two toned like the 1911.
It may be just my old eyes. But does the shadowed area on the barrel seem to be longer then what a type three band would cover?
He tinted it beyond the point where we would look for the shadow so it is not so obvious
Wow! That is all I can add.
I use to buy from this seller when he and his partners sold on Ebay. But we're seeing more and more of these put togethers skirting the 'Original description' being sold for big dollars on GB now. We've seen our fair share of their faked stamps and repro flip sights. But now are seeing them clearly doctoring the finish.
Try taking the pictures below and magnifying them up to 200%. You can also just use the CTRL Key along with the + key to increase the picture sizes. The GREEN TINT being applied will show up on the wood where I described. You'll also see where it's been wiped across the milling marks on these IBM and Underwood barrels.
NPM U Code,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/06/23-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...REENTINT-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/06/2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/06/3-1.jpg
Standard Products,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/06/6-1.jpg
Also Note the warp in this stocks barrel channel....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/06/12-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/06/7-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/06/14-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/06/21-1.jpg
It's a shame and worth posting about if it saves someone 1200+ $$.
FWIW,
Charlie-painter777
Hiya Charlie. I don't like the U. Here's one of mine for comparison with the STD. Mike.
Thanks all, thank you Charlie. You might have just saved me 1200 plus. I have looked at this carbine and did not even notice the green tint!
Were you familiar with buying something having the green tint on it after you received it, or were you able to spot this by reviewing the pictures? If so that's amazing!
As I mentioned before I'm relatively new to carbines. This was a great lesson.
What I had noticed was that regarding the cartouches on the right of the buttstock, the ordinance wheel seemed rotated counter-clockwise just a bit and thus looked odd. Not sure if that's significant or not?
This is all too bad as far as I'm concerned because I am looking for a nice carbine with some collectible qualities. Since this original thread, I e-mailed the seller - and he's fairly responsive. He is saying that:
He had to add a few parts to make it all correct
He's not claiming that theres 'no' repro parts on it
The push safety is probably too new, and he offers to swap it with another
So , he's not making any special claims.....
Prices seem so high on many of these auctions.
rokwell,
First welcome to the forum.
You'll find that Badger, the moderators and fellow members here are some of the friendliest and most helpful on any forum around.
Many gave you good advice about asking about a certain carbine. You can always PM a member with a link to a auction for his advice.
I stated that the seller like many , skirted around the fact of whether it was a original carbine, with the description provided. You really have to read and look over pictures of these auctions very closely. Some of these sellers descriptions are like trying to read between the fine print on legal papers.
You did just what you should have...... Asked the seller questions about it.
Had they said it was a Restoration/repark at the start, I don't think so many red flags would have jumped up. One thing for sure is you can't hide faked Cartouche stampings...... Most of the time.
When looking at a carbine.....
Look the wear patterns over on the metal.
Look to see if the metal finish has been reparked.....Remember many were during rebuild.
Some sellers just don't know much about these little rifles. Many of these carbines have been passed down thru the family.
EXAMPLE: I just bought a NPM a week and a half ago from a buyer who knew his Father in law had bought it in the early to mid 60's. He knew it shot well but other than knowing it was a .30cal M1 carbine made by NPM, he knew nothing else about it. He was sure the barrel was a replacement because it was a Marlin. Well NPM used this barrel, it is original to the receiver.
Look for even wear on the metal finishes and stocks being offered on so called 'Original' carbines or parts.
I look for freshly made repro parts that have had Cosmo or grease burnt on to the metal to give it that aged patina.
These are just a few quick tips of many things to look for.
As far as seeing the freshly tinted metal, it just happened that I had just used a mixture of tints/colorants to put a Antiqued Semi transparent glaze on a Fireplace Mantel a day or two before seeing the post about this carbine.
But both of these carbines have been colored....... poorly.
Now when someone drops $1200 plus and decides to take a hearty cleaner to the metal..... he'll be trying to figure out where all that green color is coming from.
Many of these sellers are getting slick.........We just have to be a little smarter.
There are many more issues with both of these carbines listed.
You just have to remember, there are very few true blue untouched carbines out there.
Find a nice one to get started with and go from there. The more you handle them the more you'll know what to look for.
Think about this........ Both these carbines by this seller will fetch over $1200+.
A nice Government rebuild will run you around $700-$800 depending on where you live. Learn from it, not one with humped parts. That $700-$$800 carbine will only go up in value.
It's a sick feeling to pay big dollars just to find out later most of your parts and stock markings are fake.
Much more to learn....... Stay tuned there are members here that wrote the books you'll pick up for reference. Some who have set up and judged the National M1 Carbine Displays and Competitions. Ask questions and pay attention, also read back thru the old posts.
Look in to joining the Carbine Club, the information is priceless.
Windy...But I Hope This Helps,
Charlie-painter777
Seller is Sam-T-Bob in Leesburg Alabama. If that's the same as Al-Sam- Bob in the same town, I bought a lot of parts from them on Ebay back in '06. They always seemed to have righteous stuff.
Thanks Charlie! Okay, all who are interested, that carbine finally sold when the auction was over for $1,810.00 !!!!!
Can you believe it? !!!
Holy Toledo Batman!!:madsmile:
r aka jim
Just a quick question... is it possible that the color difference is a result of messing with lighting and color in photoshop?
All the issues on the markings and repro parts aside..... I have had a similiar color shift occur when I was "playing" with the lighting/brightness of some of my pictures over the years in photoshop. Because I don't have a fancy light set up, I have had to adjust the lighting and color balance so you can see the object or person I photographed. When you change the balance and saturation setting, you do get different color balances. After looking at a screen for a while, you lose perspective of what is "white, blue and red". (Its actually funny to have green or yellow children!)
The seller did admit to replacing parts, so that should knock down that $1,800 selling price SIGNIFICANTLY... I am just questioning if the color imbalance COULD be from bad photography and/or editing???...
Color imbalance.........
I'll use that one next time someone touches up with a mis-tinted color.
I'm sure the customer or general contractor will understand.
TR,
those pictures aren't tweaked.
That metals' been tinted.
I'll 'tint' a buttplate when I get the chance and show you.
Charlie
Charlie, I ain't doubting you. That carbine has been doctored... and I think that its about $1,250 over priced. Whether that was an expensive "paint job" or a tweek in photoshop does not matter to me.
But maybe you have a good idea... why don't we start "reproducting" and then posting some of the "tricks" of the humpers trade? Bringing the truth out in the sunlight never hurt anyone - except the liars...
Ed