X8E1 (BR) DRILL RIFLE (L38A1) a reply to Mr Laidler

Further to Peter Laidlers question in the FN Trials magazine marked X2 E1 thread. " Did the UK DP any of their FN stockpiles afterwards."

I picked up an "old spec" deactivated FN FAL at Beltring a couple of Years ago. Looking closer it is stamped X8E1 (BR) this has been barred out and engraved DRILL RIFLE. 7.62 MM L38A1 and is stamped DP after the serial number 0170.
no part of the weapon has been sectionalised, apart from the lower section of the barrel has been cut out, as part of the convertion to Drill purpose.
I am now trying to find or manufacture the missing parts to return this rare weapon back to its original X8 condition.

Andy

Keep us info'ed in that, I for one want to see the pics when it's even nearly done!

X8E1 Trials Rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../X8E1_09-1.jpg

Here's a converted X8E5 to a L26A1 Sectionalised Rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...E5LHside-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...E5RHside-1.jpg

Good luck in trying to rebuild the rifle back to the way it was, there are american's that try building 'Clones' and it costs them $1000's.

The main parts I need to rebuild it are the wood pistol grip and butt.
I have some early wood hand guards for the L1A1 stamped late 50’s or early 60’s (not truly accurate but close enough for government work….)
I have seen many different types of butt for the X8’s they differ where it joins the trigger mech. housing,
some overlap the housing, others are just a flush fit. I am thinking I will have to either make a whole new butt .. or .. convert an existing wooden butt like the Rhodesian R1.

Other small parts missing are .. trigger guard, fore sight, metal work for the butt and pistol grip, straight carrying handle and probably the hardest to find.. the sliding “latch” on the side of the cocking handle. (I think its another thing that will have to be made from scratch)

even after all that I should have an old spec. deactivated:mad: X8E1 for less than an Old spec. deactivated L1A1

What an amazing find. I was involved in drawing up the DP spec and slightly in the DP-ing the L1A1 and some catured FN's but never saw a DP UK FN trials rifle. Plenty of SKN's though........

Skippy, can't find the PM space on this new fangled whatsits but had a through my boxes of parts and found a UK FN left handguard. Used and amazingly, from a DP no less. Yours for the postage and an address!

The wood pistol grip should be a doddle.........

Regards, Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Skippy, can't find the PM space on this new fangled whatsits but had a through my boxes of parts and found a UK FN left handguard.

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Peter ... :)

With thanks to the site developer (Joe), the PM (Private Message) button has been added to the bottom bar, just for you ... :super:

In this new scheme, it's actually been moved to the user profile. Click on the user name in the box to the left of the post and it will open up, showing you a bunch of options you can do with that member, one of which is PM (Private Message).

So, now everyone has two places they can select to send the member a PM... :D

Thanks for reminding us about how convenient having the button on that post bar itself was Peter ... :thup:

Regards,
Badger

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

What an amazing find. I was involved in drawing up the DP spec and slightly in the DP-ing the L1A1 and some catured FN's but never saw a DP UK FN trials rifle. Plenty of SKN's though........

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Hi Peter, I don't know if they were trials FNs (although I don't think they could have been anything else really), but the first exercise we did at Junior Leaders' Regiment RAC when I joined up in 1982 we carried DP'ed FNs. The Falklands was in full swing at that time so they definately weren't captured Argentinian rifles.

I received a box of odds and ends last month and there was a butt stock, pistol grip, and FAL mag with a painted white ring around the body for Metric FN. The guy said the FN items came out of a Canadian depo as scrap. I have an FN FAL and I knew the mag wouldn't fit a C1.

The FAL mags will fit the FN C1. It just isn't as secure as the correct mags. It's the other way round, the FN C1 types won't fit the FALs.

MAGAZINES...... I remember about 25 or so years ago being asked to run the ranges for a small TA (reservists) range day and they turned up with their SLR's and L4 Brens. During the afternoon the Bren magazines were all loaded up and when the shooting started we found that they were being forced out of the guns causing stoppages. It turned out that the box of L4 Bren magazines they had were all old original FN style magazines for L4A1 Brens with the small pressed lug. It seems as though over the years and tears, nobody had noticed that a few of the guns had been issued with these original magazines. We just loaded up rifle magazines and carried on the day.

Naturally, being a reservist unit, non too familiar with shoooting anything beyond the No8 rifle and with the aid of a good butt party, everyone passed with above average results ............ as you do!

Never tried the FAL mag on a Bren...but I can see where the problem would be.

[It seems as though over the years and tears, nobody had noticed that a few of the guns had been issued with these original magazines.

Peter, then the 'Circuit Armourer' who did the rounds with establishments that did not have it's own Armourer. Wants shooting for failure to carry out his duties correctly!
We both know that one of the many onerous tasks was the inspection of magazines & appurtences! Boring, boring, but it really did need doing. Some mags got damaged during usage as you ar familiar with, im sure.
These early L4A1 mags SHOULD have been weeded out during this procedure. But as your also aware, TA & Reservist units DO have some quirks & 'Interesting Things' hidden away from normal prying eyes!..........LOL!

You know what it's like Tankie, Skiprat and others. The first 8 rifles in the rack, closest to the counter get the constant use, thrashed to death and get reported on and the 'once-over' before the next 'annual'. The rest are immaculate, same as last year because they've never been used. And so it goes on......, and on. I suppose people like me should have kept a closer eye on things but boat rocking is a double edged sword when you're a lowly Lt or Captain! Anyway, I ALWAYS blame the workshop ASM (the Warrant Officers....)

Yep, Spot on there If Im honest Peter! RE: Blaming ASM,s Etc. Quite right too, always pass it down the line. The buck has to stop somewhere, after all. They are there in a supervisory capacity!
You know the score, Rule No:1, NEVER Blame Yourself, Rule No:2, When In doubt, Refer to rule No;1.........................:nono:

Attachment 27175Attachment 27176Attachment 27177Attachment 27178Attachment 27179Attachment 27180Attachment 27181

I've now found a few more bits , and made a few that were hard to find or too expensive,

The left hand guard is an original, the right hand one was modified from an L1A1 hand guard , the small gas hole was “patched” and another slot was milled in the correct position.

The pistol grip and butt have been carved out of a piece of beech , mainly as a template and to see how feasible it would be to produce them in my workshop. They are a bit under size in a couple of places, but will be a good pattern when I turn them out in walnut.

The butt plate was modified from a fal pressed steel but plate by removing a few of the strengthening ribs.

I still have not found a forward assist for the cocking handle. And with the short top cover the ugly de-activated carrier is clear for all to see… (the front has been ground off at 45 degrees on the left hand side.

It's looking better though. This is one I'd like to have in hand to examine, everything from machine marks to markings.

Skippy & Pete: you May remeber seeing these?

There were quite a lot of these sectionalised & fitted in clear perspex cases with a circular cutout in the perspex around the Pistol Grip. This was to allow access to operate the trigger.
These were modified for instalation in the Mobile Recruting 'Caravan' trailers, that were towed around the country on Recruting drives.

They were fitted with an Electric motor & gearbox at the rear, to allow the action to function when the trigger was pressed. very nice to look at, & a bit more interesting, as the acton 'came to life' so to speak when opperated!

I assume they were all modified in a 2nd Line Workshops? I havent seen any around other than when they were in Service. I would also assume that the 'Usual' would have happened to them. All Scrapped!

I also remember the whole range of infantry Small Arms on show in these 'Caravans'. The L42 Sniper rifle, SLR, Sterling SMG, GPMG, 2" Mortar, Charlie G 84mm A/T Gun, L18 81mm Mortar, Milan Launcher, Etc, Etc. They were interesting in the fact that ALL the above mentiond Weapons were manufactured from WOOD! All had SOME original parts, like Rubber eye cups, sling swivels, Etc. But approx 95% was all wood! I have seen some of these for sale after these were obsolete from service & the new weapons introduced. I used to own a complete 81mm Mortar from one of these 'vans'. I saw recently TWO Charlie G's for sale also.

I know that most, ended up chucked in skips! What a waste!, but thats the Service for you.
If it's not in Service, it has no place to be there - get rid!.................

Hey Skippy, that's an amazing bit of carpentry, a butt and a pistol grip from scratch. I did a couple of Mk5 Sten sets but at least I could start off with the rear end of a No4 butt cut to length

I would love one of the 'display' wood rifles and even one of the motorized display pieces

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Originally Posted by skiprat

Other small parts missing are ... fore sight

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Have you found a foresight yet ? If not any idea of the part number or picture to ID it ?

ATB Kevin

I have a fore sight fitted … it’s a FN FAL one that had to be reduced in diameter slightly.
The X8’s I’ve seen in the pattern rooms are all fitted with different types of fore/rear sight. The flip over (two range) one that I have fitted looks to be original, but a dealer friend has some FAL pattern rear sight ramps (square notches for the detent) marked in yards.

Some original top covers have turned up here in the UK, they look to be in very good condition. I wonder if they were removed and put in storage when these X8’s were converted to drill or instructional rifles.

So as an original L38 drill rifle would it have been used to practice drills for the X8 (short top cover) ?

OR

As a no longer needed X8 would it have been used to practice drills for the new L1A1 (normal full top cover fitted, and short cover removed to stores?

Well if you need an original foresight PM me and I'll bung it in the post.
Kevin in NZ (kinz) ID'd it last night (he's got the other one)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...oresight-1.jpg

ATB Kevin

with thanks to Brit plumber for a push in the right direction...... I now have the original, butt, butt plate, carrying handle, and a set of hand guards....
the pistol grip is a copy and needs finishing.

2 years from start to near complete or as good as it needs to be, Well done that!

Brilliant bit of work Skippy...........

looking good. Im glad there were still some bits to be had.

Anybody got the optic for the top cover on a Canadian Ex 2 or, obviously the British equivalent. Heck, the whole top over assembly!

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

How about a mag for a X8E1/ CDN 1?

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Originally Posted by waltmilan

Anybody got the optic for the top cover on a Canadian Ex 2 or, obviously the British equivalent. Heck, the whole top over assembly!

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The last EX2/X8E2 Optic I saw sold for USD $1200 and that was about 5 years ago.