i was wondering if anyone has had any expirence with buying an smle from the seller afac on gunbroker and auctionarms, because I want to buy an smle with the volley sights from him?
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i was wondering if anyone has had any expirence with buying an smle from the seller afac on gunbroker and auctionarms, because I want to buy an smle with the volley sights from him?
This link provides some discussion on the topic
Knowledge Library Entry - A Short Tour Of Three Humped Enfields
what concerns me is he sometimes uses the same exact picture for 5 auctions.
I was the person who tried to warn Krinko (Gunboards member) off of some of "AFAC's" rifles because I had previously returned them. I bought three at once based upon a telephone discussion with the Col. wherein he assured me the rifles were unmessed with originals, he's an author, etc. etc. I pointed out that I'd know pretty quick if they weren't. I got them in and all were humped. They smelled of new cold blue and stock pimping. They were obviously renumbered. My opinion was that the rifles were humped up after he got off the phone with me, boxed, and ready.
Sadly, Krinko initially disregarded my warnings, took a few public shots at me for being such an AFAC heretic, and bought a couple of the subject rifles anyway. He later discovered that my warnings were correct and to his credit posted the Gunboards post replicated in the link. My personal opinion of "AFAC" is about as bad as it gets and IMHO, I can't believe he's still running loose on the auctions.
Cheers,
HB
Spoke to this guy about a rifle I bought from him a couple of months back. a fulton regulated No.1 Mk3. i email him a couepl of weeks back and have received no reply as yet, but when / if I ever get the rifle I'll report on it. However I recall that in the pics on gunbroker it looked in surprisingly good condition and i"m wondeirng now if the blueing has been redone. Grrrr.
Hambone's nose works much better than mine---I still can't smell cold blue.
-----krinko
has anyone had any expience with an smle with the volley sights from him because a few years back he had a beutiful 1908 bsa, i regret bying it, then from what others have been saying ill have to find out and buy a couple rifles to just look at them and probably send them back.
You're a good man Krinko and did the collecting community a service by posting up on this back when. We all want to believe what we get is what it is advertised to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by krinko
Cheers,
HB
Greetings Gentlemen,
This has been a long time coming, too long in fact. Partly because of a one time friendship, so I thought, partly out of once felt respect, but mainly... It had to be presented correctly and convincingly and for the first time, I had run into a writing wall about how to present this information. I learned quite a bit from Mr. Edwards over the years and our conversations date back to before his first book. I have taken a long time thinking about this ( Krinko can verify this as I approached him well over a year ago with my information ) and have finally come to the conclusion that the interests of fellow collectors, in particular, the novices, deserve to have available to them any information there may be to help decipher and weed out the crap to better serve in deciding on a purchase.
I would like to start off stating that I am not the first to bring this information to surface and over the years there have been at least a half dozen references to the altering of rifles by Mr. Edwards. I can't imagine a handful of people from across this country waking up one day and decide... "OK, It's pick in AFAC day".
I have bought at least 7 rifles from Mr. Edwards over the years past and the following is a outline of 5 of them. These rifles were ones that I had asked for in particular and amazingly, he had them. He did in fact tell me that he had to stain match a set of hand guards for one but I wasn't bothered by that. The acquisition of these rifles were in my very early years of collecting and I had not yet learned all the anal detail needed to clearly pick out what had been done to these rifles, I was at that time just happy to have found what I was looking for.
I have tried to compile the following pictures in a fashion that will hopefully leave little doubt as to what is going on with these rifles and who has done it. I would also like to point out that renumbering bolts, nose caps rear sights and forestocks is just one aspect of the forgery. Two of the rifles I purchased from Mr. Edwards were once DP rifles and DP'd in a fashion that has seen little exposure on the boards and unless you know what to look for you may never notice what had been removed to allow a unmodified bolt to be used. I feel you will also see some of the marking disc's are more than suspect and clear evidence of import mark removal. Please forgive the pic intensity.
Rifle No.1--- Royal Marine regiment marked and "N" marked for the Royal Navy
Rifle No.2--- South African Air-Force/Anti-Aircraft regiment marked and South African ownership marked.
Rifle No.3--- Princess Patricia Light Infantry regiment marked and Canadian ownership marked.
Rifle No.4--- Royal Air-Force regiment marked
Rifle No.5--- 1918 NRF
All WWI rifles.
The rifles, Less the NRF which I found after taking this photo.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858783-1.jpg
The Regiment Marks
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858892-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858871-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858853-1.jpg
This is the only one I feel is "original"
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858809-1.jpg
The Receivers
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859543-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859293-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859279-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859174-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858956-1.jpg
The Bolts. Every one crisp and clear as "new". Note the 9's and 4's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859431-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859458-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859452-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859522-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859439-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859419-1.jpg
Rear Sights. 2 out of the 5 are original, but, you can clearly see the outsiders.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859527-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859314-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859263-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859155-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858975-1.jpg
The Nose Caps. Again, 2 are original the rest, well...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859574-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859408-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859327-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859147-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859002-1.jpg
The Re-Bluing and "Antiquing" Also note the "antiquing" in the area where the view dates would normally be.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859238-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859221-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858764-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859113-1.jpg
One of the DP Rifles
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859562-1.jpg
The Other DP Rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859482-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859135-1.jpg
The Small Plates Removed from the DP'd Rifles. In order for a bolt to be fitted after one of these plates is installed, you have to grind the small locking lug down over half way so it will pass over the plate in the lug channel. You can clearly see the chisel mark on one of the remnants of the stud after having knocked off the small plate.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859555-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859475-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859497-1.jpg
last, But Not Least, Where the Import marks... Were. You can clearly see the grinding and sanding marks, along with some " antiquing"
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859025-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859536-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859203-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858994-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859000-1.jpg
A few Comparisons that make you say..... Hmmmmm
The 5's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859458-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859439-1.jpg
The 2's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858892-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859419-1.jpg
The 7's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859522-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
The 1's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43858853-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859419-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859408-1.jpg
The 4's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859155-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859408-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859458-1.jpg
The 9's
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859452-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43859458-1.jpg
Please feel free to take the photos and make your own comparisons. Any information that can be drawn from them will benefit all of us.
Krinko, I should have come out in support of you on this long ago... I apologize and hope this helps out.
Frankly this sucks. I'm just waiting to pick up a No./1 mk3 - 'regulated by Fultons' which of course is indicated by a stamp on teh outside (easily faked I'd guess) and now i"m going to get the thing and forever wonder if it's genuine or not. IF the thing behaves as advertized and shoots straight and has a great bore as per the ad I'll probably not bitch too much but I'll still have that niggle in the back of my mind, and bieng an honest fellow i"m never going to sell it as I bought it now. BUGGER! Caveat Emptor I guess and I was too happy to find what I was looking for to wonder about it. Anyone know exactly what to look for in a fulton regualted NO.1? One mor ething - do Fultons keep records of all the rifles they regulate?
Newcastle
I'm afraid you are not the first and will likely not be the last to be taken by Mr. Edwards. I'm in the same boat as you are, I wouldn't dare sell these rifles unless the buyer fully understood what it was... and I have 5 of them !! They will probably end up as parts rifles for future projects. I can't give you any pointers about your Fultons rifle but please post pics when you receive it.
I shall do that but also I shall not pass judgement yet as I have not received the rifle and checked it out and fired it. I shall be interested to see what turns up when I go to Reno to collect said item.
Reno? Invading my hometown? What is the rifle doing in Reno, the butt crevise of the US?
Nice photos Spike and well written, too. Glad to see you get this out.
-----krinko
it's in Reno because teh seller wouldn't ship to California (a misguided theory amongst gunsellers if ever there was one as we ARE the FRONT line on the fight for the 2nd amendment) so my fathe rin law lives in reno. I used silver state arms as an internmediary. We'll be up there for the air races in September so I have to wait til then
Yikes - a long time to wait. Is your father-in-law into Enfields? I was at Silver State Arms today having my Enforcer shipped to a new lucky owner (they have a couple of No.4 Mk.2s for about $300 each, too - but I am now officially broke lol).
And the update is on the No.1 Mk 3 'Regulated by Fultons'
supposed to be matching : it is NON matching - all serial numbers are C25xx EXCEPT the receiver which is identical but has a G instead of the C - maybe an honest mistake in service, maybe not (it does have a scored out serial number there too) , maybe someone trying to make a rifle match and not checking closely enough, as at first glance the C does looks like a G. Great bore according to the posting on gunbroker : not in real life though - in actuallity worn by the chamber and displays good but dark rifling on the rest of the barrel. Wood stamped with the C serial number and is 1942 slaz marked also - odd for a 1914 rifle. I'm going to compare the serials and stamps to the above pics, but I think it's fair to say that something is not quite right and a non matching serial number is a signifcant blow to the value of an Enfield.. I emailed AFAC as the seller and have received no reply. Does that mean I'm just crap out of luck?
im going to buy a 1915 lithgow from him w/cut off and volley sights because I cant find one anywhere else
:eek:Why don't you just buy a whole lot of parts and cobble one together yourself - that's all he'll do. You'll never be able to sell it on if you find a genuine example. The more rifles people buy from this seller the more he will fake them, so do us all a favour and spend your money on the Lotto instead.
Curly
I know, but I cant find one and hes the only one that has them with queenslsand maple stocks
I just want to add my thanks to Spike for his post...sorry to be so late. I've got a couple of the good Colonel's art projects, one that I bought from him (see the linked post above) and one that I bought elsewhere, but that has some of the hallmarks of his work.
I'd advise taking very seriouly to heart the non-shooting disclaimer he has on all of his auctions...as well as the ex-DP rifles, he also builds on relic condition barreled actions (my MkI** IP fits that bill). Wish I'd had the foresight to get the s/n of the one he picked up on one of the auction sites a couple of years ago...I'd bet it's in someone's gun safe even as we speak, looking shiny and new.
I may add that the one time I spoke to him one time he also managed to threaten me if I double crossed him - along the lines of "I know a ton of Hmong killers from my time in vietnam - and if you fail to pay they'll track you down and get you". So all in all he seems a thoroughly disagreeable person but the upshot of this seems to be that this guy will just continue doing exactly what he's doing, no-one can or will do anything about it even though it appears to be common knowledge, and I'm crap out of luck. Seems fine if you can afford to fling cash about, but I can't, so this rather sucks on a large one.
Death threats? That's getting a little extreme...sounds like someone's "jumped their chocks" a bit. Anything provable that you could take to the authorities?
nah he sounded tipsy and it was possibly just an unfunny joke. but it illustrates what sort of fellow he is.
SMLE13,
I'm guessing you're the gentleman I was speaking with on YouTube. Knowing now that AFAC is the source of the 1915 Lithgow you're intending to buy, I'd suggest you proceed with caution. Can you get some decent pics of the rifle before you commit? Sounds like it could be dodgey.
Cheers,
Matt
In which part of the USA does Col Bob Edwards (AFAC) deal in Enfields? How, if everybody knows his reputation, is he able to continue?
He's on the east coast (Maryland I believe). He sells through the auction sites, so his stuff ends up all over the country. As to why he's able to continue...who knows...enough folks willing to suspend disbelief in order to fill a hole in their collection I guess.
yep, thats me, im just dying for an early lithgow though.
It's certainly your right to buy whatever you want within the bounds of legality. Just as long as you realize that you're getting a rifle that's likely restored (at best).
or complete bollocks at worst. Still no response from my emails. I mean condition can be misinterpreted, even a bore can be misinterpreted bcause sometimes frosting in the grooves can actually makes the rifling look stronger than it is on first inspection, but selling as "matching" when it is NOT is flat out misrepresentation / lying.
It is really disappointing. I am a Lithgow SMLE collector and, as much as I find the ripping off of people with the same interest aggravating, the butchery, bastardisation and contempt for the rifles' history disgusts me.
I agree with Curly, no matter how much I may want an 'all matching' rare year with rare furniture No1MkIII, I would never deal with such a vandal and crook by giving him my hard earned! The fact is, you still have that hole in your collection and you have encouraged further desecration by the man in order to rip someone else off with his next project. :nono:
I'd rather have a photo of the real thing than a humped fake in my hands.
I contacted Fultons once about did they keep records, sorry to say, no such luck.
Glad you've got a fultons, well done.
What approaching gunbroker? This guys reputations is long and using them to help it along, they'd probably be happy to know?
GB is not exactly known for stepping up in instances even worse than this...as long as they get their cut. Technically speaking, what he's doing is not illegal as long as the BATF doesn't deem him to be doing business. From the legal standpoint, he's restoring old rifles and selling them. Without more specific language than he tends to use in his descriptions, "originality" can be a bit nebulously defined in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJW NZ