Printable View
Yes, I spelled ENFIELD wrong in the title but I cant edit that, sorry...
Found what I think is a British Enfield sniper at a local gunshop yesterday. It is a No4 Mark 1/2, but is not marked T. It does have the British issue scope mounts, a complete 1943 British scope set up and the wooden cheek piece on a full length stock (its not sporterized like the L42A1's. Were all the of the original guns marked with a T??? It does have an A or AV serial number if that matters...
Thanks,
Kenny
Could be wrong but I dont think Mk1/2 were used for 'Ts' Only Mk1's
I'm not sure either, but any info would be appreciated...
I think Captain Laidler's book mentions a FEW 1/2 conversions, but no 1/3s. Sounds like a '43 BSA if "AV". MAYBE no "T". An "A" prefix ('44) should have the "T" (mine does and I know of another or two "A"s which have them).
IF it's real, it's a very, very scarce variant! Be careful , but be prepared to pounce QUICKLY!
Send pictures!
My 4T is serial number AV3536 so presumably a close relative. Its a Mk1 (not Mk1/2) 1943
There were Mk1/2's converted from Mk1's of course and some originated from India recently too but I never saw a Mk1* (or 1/1) T converted to a Mk1/3
Serial number is A above 0075T if that helps...
A makes it much more interesting, there's a whole slew of info about this letter and what it means, be prepared to buy the rifle.
Oh, its already bought thanks. $600.00 out the door. I'm trying to post pics soon...
US$600 ?????!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrogpilot
With scope too. Yikers!
That serial number is definately a No4T but converted to Mk1/2 spec in India. I've seen a few like this including a former trials
Heres some pics. Any info would be greatly appreciated (I collect US stuff...)
And btw, It is still covered in old dirt and grease and I havent had time to clean it up yet...
I'll double your money - Interested ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrogpilot
( I wouldnt take it either !!! - maybe 5x your investment would be nearer the mark)
It's a tremendous find especially for that price. Just shows, I suppose, that if you keep looking you can find something, maybe, with a huge slice of luck.
I'd be interested to know what the people in the gunshop had to say about it!
I'd also like to see more pics of the bracket, and the left side of the butt socket where the bsa markings normally are. Does it have the d6e marking to the left of the bolt channel just above where the scope number would be stamped on the butt?
A little knowledge leads to huge (dangerous) assumptions - but - if it was converted from a 'standard' No4 Mk1/2 to a 4T in India then it probably wouldnt have all the 'usual' 4T markings we'd expect.
Now we can see pics its obviously served in India - all that thick black paint
I would have thought the normal process would have been to be converted to a 4t in the uk as usual - then shipped to india later in its service, where the conversion to mk1/2 spec took place along with the restamped serial no. Didn't all indian 4ts start life in the uk as 4ts first?
Naturally this could be wrong too!
I don't know, but it's something NEW for which to hunt! Quite exciting, really.
I have a feeling many of the "experienced" WWII rifles ended up in India. I just wish I could find one in person!
Thanks for sharing, Phrogpilot!
I am now considering selling this rifle. Any idea's on value? Bore is bright and shiney...
I've seen quite a few of these over the years & I've never seen an example that didn't start life as a UK (or in one or two cases Canadian) No4T in WW2. In other words, whilst they may exist, I have never seen any which I believe were set up post-war by the Indians. There do however seem to be two distinct variations of Indian issue 4T's: those that are still in original Mk1 trim; & those which have been converted to Mk1/2. It's risky to extrapolate on just the experiences of a few people, but it seems that the unmodified Mk1 T's generally retain their original UK markings & serial numbers, but the Mk1/2 conversions have usually had their original markings linished off & are marked RFI with an early 1960's (eg 1962 or 63) date on the Right side of the butt socket, SMLE style. It would seem feasible that the trigger conversion was effected at the same time as a general refinishing of the rifle.
ATB
I have some pics and they may still be on another post here of an Indian No4 Mk1T. The rifle started out life in the UK and and was later sold to India with its Mk1 scope. It was completely FTRed as the bbl is excellent and the scope is in perfect conditon, including the lenses, which look to have been replaced and are sharp and clear.
The rifle is similar to the OP's but of course different. The finish on the stock has been sanded with coarse sand paper to cut shine and the biggie, it is marked No4 MkI/3 T. The left side of the butt is marked M47C, 1943, 5--6. It has an unusual scope bracket and it may be of Indian origin. I sold the rifle a year ago to someone that really appreciates it.
If anyone would like some pics, I seem to be computer illiterate to the point that no matter how hard I try or wherever I open an account, I don't seem to be able upload pics. Anyway, send me an email addy and I will be happy to send them to you. There are about 20 pics. I saw one other besides mine at a gunshow in Kamloops early on the first morning of the show. It wasn't on display or for sale because it had exchanged hands in the pre hours trading that goes on amongst vendors. The vendor paid $3200 cash for it. He was going to take it to a northern Alberta show an put it up for sale where he felt he could make a quick $500 - $1000 profit on it. I wished him luck but there's lots of money up there and No4Ts aren't exactly common.
I wouldn't mind seeing some examples of the No4 Ts from other nations. Just to see how they're marked. Norway, Denmark, France, Italy, Turkey to name a few would be nice.
yeah, yeah, yeah, pictures, quickly ...
sounds like you did a fine thing there, good spotting and a good deal, no, a great deal ...
Here is the link to the thead containing bearhunter's former Indian 4t!Quote:
Originally Posted by bearhunter
Sniper rifles of India
Thanks Prinz Eugen. I looked at the photo's & suspect my line that the Indian Mk1 T's generally retain their original markings but the Mk1/2's don't may still hold true: If you look at Bearhunter's rifle, it appears still to be a Mk1 -- look at the back of the forend. I can't read the receiver sidewall Mk1/2 marking clearly, but if it is indeed that it would seem to be incorrectly stamped, or maybe Uri Geller fitted the forend to it!
ATB
It doesn't show in my pics, but I seem to remember the forestock was serial numbered to the receiver. enfield303t would be able to check that out. I should have taken more pics.