Commonwealth Inch, Commonwealth Finish?

I have a question about rifle finishes from each Commonwealth Nation for their various SLRs. What did each of the Canadian, English, Australian, New Zealand and Indian SLRs designate for rifle finish? My simple observation is that all except the UK just applied parkerizing. The UK appears to me to be a paint over parkerizing and I believe I have heard that term before. Is this correct?

What form of paint (color and curing) did the UK use?

Did the other countries actually specify a "color" to the final parkerizing process? :confused: Sorry, "colour" to my Commonwealth collector friends. :cheers:

Did these finishes also exactly apply to the magazines?

Surprised I did not find this as a thread already.

Thanks guys!

I believe the paint you are referring to is "suncorite" Very tough, but also NASTY to apply , requiring a respirator.
You cannot buy it here. Though there is one dealer who has the facilities to apply it. You have to send the rifle to him.

Would you mind passing that dealer's name and contact info on to me, either in a PM or a public reply? Want to also get some mag bodies finished as well. I suspect Duracoat might be as tough, but unless it is unreasonably expensive, I prefer the original finish.

Thanks!

It's a difficult question Ameng because while the UK used paint over the phosphate from new, where Ordnance stockpiles were pooled, such as with the Canadians in Germany or Aust and NZ in Malaya, then all the rifles, regardless (including the light green/kakhi Owens etc etc) were all finished in the painted black finish. So you'll find Australian, NZ and Can L1A1's in Grey (oops, sorry, gray!) or black

Can't say I have seen or even heard of Canadian FNC1A1s ever being painted black. We used black parkerizing(blacker than it was grey) and I'm sure I would have at least heard about black paint from one of the gun guys. Not to mention the armourers that had posting to Canadian Forces Europe. Also when I went there in summer 1980 I would have seen it. You would have to show me that one.

It's a fact BAR! The main Base Workshop workshop was the pooled one at Wetter with mixed Brit and Canadian armourers. The standard finish there was the UK spec for all, including the many 7.62mm ex .30" M1919 Brownings. I can't show you any because, very unfortunately, I didn't keep any! As a result of this pooled system in Germany and Malaya, you could until they were finished occasionally see a Canadian or Australian made L1A1 in British service too

The Suncorite paint finnish refered to here, was manufactured by Henkle Chemmicals in the UK. It is used in the radiator repair industry as it has a HIGH heat resistance.
I discovered this by chance when i took a Ferret Scout car fuel tank I owned once. In for a clean out to a rad repair facility few years back. (You NEVER forget the smell of Suncorite!)
When I was stationed at 27 Command Workshops in Warminster myself. They had a superb 'Rustproofing' plant there. Everything was stripped down to componant parts, cleaned in hot Tricoethelene. Water & sandblasted, Parkerised & finally SPRAY painted with suncorite. Baked in a HOT oven for 30 miniutes & then oil dipped. Result: The Magnificent 'Enfield Finnish' that we all know & love! I had a LOT of my own private weapons done there as well as Motor Cycle parts! They looked supurlative! :thup:

Don't forget Tankie that we had three similar finishes! The black, kakhi for 3" mortar barrels, Vickers barrel jackets and Bren magazine boxes etc etc and the bright heat resisting (?) yellow for BFA's. I had my first mountain bike done in the yellow. It certainly stood out on the mountains! All the black bumper irons etc etc from my beloved MGB GT V8 were done too

This has been very informative. Not only because I like the very black finish of the UK L1A1s (and my "re-assembled" finish on most of the parts except the DSA receiver), but I also have a Sterling manufactured AR-180 from a very early serial range. It is early enough that I had the thought they were Howa produced stampings, forwarded on to the newly contracted Sterling. That suspicion was based on the parkering of ALL receiver components and internals that looked very much like the finish on my Howa made 180. But the Sterling 180 is completely black on the exterior. My particular one doesn't looked to have fired very many rounds at all, if any. It is about void of any marring. I think Sterling started production in the mid to later 70s? I know in the later years, the Sterling 180s had a very poor blued finish. I believe history records UK labor issues in the 80s?? Not sure that had an effect on this commercial product though as Sterling was a government provider, although a private company. THAT is a whole other story!

Thank you for the inputs.Attachment 14001Attachment 14002Attachment 14001Attachment 14002

Australian
Early (pre 1971) rifles and parts are only phosphated with a dark grey finish. After 1971 parts and rifles were then given a coat of black satin ‘stove paint’ to lengthen the durability of the finish. Stove paint was applied to exterior surfaces only. Magazines were always phosphated and coated with black stoving paint.

British
From the factory they were finished with stoving Paint over phospating. Magazines were always phosphated and coated with black stoving paint.

Canadian
The Canadians just phosphated their rifles right through production including their magazines.


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Australian Lithgow L1A1 (1964)
British BSA L1A1 (1961)
Canadian CAL C1A1 (1968)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rsLHcuts-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rsRHcuts-1.jpg

I note with an Armourers eye for detail. That your Top rifle &Aussie) Has the hinge pin screw in the WRONG way round! This was Illegal stripping for users in the UK, & often accompanying inspections found the Proverbial Matchstick under the sear! Result, user was informed Armourer KNEW user had Illegally strippied his weapon & tampered with internal componant parts.
Result: A case of Beer for the Armourers Workshop, of face being charged in front of the company commander! I think you know which course of action the 'User' prefered!

I must say that I've never seen our sunkorite actually flaking off the rifle as shown in the BSA with black plastic furniture. It would wear off of course but the bead blasted and phosphated surface was a very good key for the paint. I think that the rifle wasn't properly degreased in the boiling trichlorethylene vapour tank. Any comments on this Tankie..........?

Indeed tankhunter, the Hinge Pin is in around the wrong way. Another point not to have it this way is because you will rake your fingers across the ends of the screw.

Peter the BSA is well used and it looks like the last time someone messed with the finish they just put black paint on it hence the flaking look to it?

The new 1961 Enfield I have has a top notch Factory Phosphated/Stoving finish. :)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...61LHside-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...markings-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...markings-1.jpg

I agree Peter, I have never seen flaking of the suncorite finnish. it was a VERY hard surface finnish. If the weapon was dropped on something hard & slipped. It would be a small scratch to the finnish rather than a chip or flaking to the paint!
I suspect that the finnish shown in the finnish is a post Service applied one.

So nzl1a1, your new 1961 Enfield is an English rifle that has migrated commercially to New Zealand (during private collecting), or did the New Zealand government purchase directly from the factories in the UK?

Seems I should get the book. Is there a good publication out there that covers all the Commonwealth models, instead of just a chapter in an FAL book?

Sorry to be so unversed in all this. :runaway:

I keep on at NZ L1A1 collectot to publish a book on the complete story of the Commonwealth LA1's and variants. He will one day for sure!

I fully support that Peter! By the way nzl1a1, if you need a book designer, I have been a graphic artist for 30 years and can help you arrange, build and give the book a fantastic look. We just need a good editor!? Peter? Need a side project? :move eek:

High quality photos are the key. One of my favorite publications is now over 30 years old. Modern Small Arms by Major Frederick Myatt M.C., Salamander Book, is still a great reference for me.

If only books had panarama 360 degree capability. Ah, hence the internet!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmEngRifles

So nzl1a1, your new 1961 Enfield is an English rifle that has migrated commercially to New Zealand (during private collecting), or did the New Zealand government purchase directly from the factories in the UK?

Seems I should get the book. Is there a good publication out there that covers all the Commonwealth models, instead of just a chapter in an FAL book?

Sorry to be so unversed in all this. :runaway:

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The rifle was one of 10 sent to New Zealand from Enfield as part of us being a member of the Rifle Steering Committee (RSC). It has all the 'new' features that had been incorporated into production, basically from this point forward the rifle was the Mk. 2 Self Loading Rifle and really should of been called the L1A2. The 10 rifles were keep at the SEME Armoury as 'Control Rifles' till the L1A1 was replaced by the Steyr AUG A1/F88.

That's interesting, in Victoria BC we had ten EX rifles held in Regimental Quartermaster store for decades and no one was aware let alone allowed to touch. Copper wash pistons and all. I saw them in the summer of 84 when I was standing somewhere I shouldn't have been. I was able to return to that spot some months later and they were gone. Magically spirited away I expect! I always wonder if it was because of my asking that did it. Until then no one cared or knew what they had? I did mention they were worth coin!

Thanks for all this interesting information. Kind of like getting the bits and pieces to a treasure map. Wonder where those EX rifles ended up BAR? :rolleyes: Be nice to see them resurface.

Knowing the Canadian military they were destroyed. We didn't release ANY of the FNC1A1 rifles for public sale, the 8L series you men are familiar with were Ontario Provincial Police issue. We weren't even issued 8L until almost the end when there were no spare parts left. The rifle teams got them from war reserve and we canablised ours. Like I say I only say those EX by accident. When I made noise, they disappeared.

Jim, Having worked in the museum business for the last 15 years, I have to say that mixing my pleasure (firearms) with my professional background (graphic design/exhibit design) is my greatest pleasure. While I understand that not ALL war material can be kept and preserved for future generations, when you see the really special stuff preserved, it brings those moments when you feel like your work has meant something. Hate to entertain that those EXs may have been destroyed, for the museum industry those moments are heartbreaking. Kinda like chopping up a TSR-2!

On the Suncorite-painted rifles...how much wear and tear of the paint was considered acceptable before a rifle would be sent back for refinishing?

If the paint was worn through to the phosphating, then that was just touch painted up by the unit Armourers. Likewise when it went through to the white metal but here, once it was obviously apparent and at a 25 to 30 percent bare, then they were returned to Base workshop facility for 'the works'

To be honest, the crunchies/soldiers/squaddies were their own worse enemies. Even worse was when they put those harsh 'scotch-brite' cloths into the cleaning regime. If they were used correctly, on the hard chrome parts, they were wonderful and made cleaning the gas parts a doddle. (Doddle: an Army technical phrase used to indicate 'simplcity itself.....'. Directly opposite of '---ing difficult!). Anyway, they'd use it to clean the gas parts off, well....., anything. As a result, the paint, phosphate and anything else was linished down to the core. I swear that some of them have been known to clean the lenses of the SUSAT sights with it! Bless 'em.......

Anyway enblock, has that answered the question in a roundabout way?

Yes it has! Thanks a bunch!!

"Roundabouts" fully appreciated on MilSurps posts! ;)