SA 1-42, with type 1 short pinion lockbar

Ive cleaned this up, and oiled it, the only part I replaced was a band, too bad the stocks sanded, but it is what it is, BNP proofed on top of barrel
Is it pretty sure it was a GHS stock?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1278717946
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1278718778
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1278719255
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1278719892
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1278720010[COLOR="Silver"]

Alot of interesting changes that collectors look for on these rifles;

1) lower bands with a single letter (I have seen a few too)

2) revision 2 and revision 12 bolts both with the lot lot RE5B

3) lip added to the accelerator

4) revision 9 follower (found on s/n 533252)Attachment 14059

Can anyone tell me what the little mark is on the rear sight cover spring? Mine doesn't show up as well as this one but it's there.

Markings on the rear sight covers started on the "flat" SA covers in 1940 and from the list that I have last well into the indented covers too.

some samples from 1941: 2, B, F, ^,?, *, NR,F, j, 3, and on

I know this is an older thread, but just purchased a LL 521xxx, and is all, looks original, with a -12 bolt heat lot of RE5C. Heat lot is correct for timeframe, and curious as to what is special with the RE5B heat lots? Mr. Duff's book brackets this one also, and both have the 5B code.

Some bolt heat lots may fall into different revisions. The RE5B and RE5C heat lots are found in both the -2SA and the -12SA revisions. The -2SA revision of these two heat lots seems to be less common than the -12SA.

I don't think there is anything particularly special about the RE5B heat lot other than it tends to be seen often in the March-April '42 time period as does the RE5C.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Can anyone tell me what the little mark is on the rear sight cover spring? Mine doesn't show up as well as this one but it's there.

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Good article by Tony Pucci "Marking of Rear Sight Covers" in the Fall 1993 issue of the GCA Journal.

While certain revision 2 and revision 12 bolts can have the same heat lot code, the main difference is that the right lug on the revision 2 bolt has a hole through it while the revision 12 is without this hole through the lug.
Highest serial number that I have found with a revision 2 bolt RE5B is 519576 and starting with 524290 with a revision 12 bolt RE5B but there has to be more of a overlap. Once found s/n 544121 with a S-A 10-41 barrel and the gas port area was chromed and the T.E. was 1.0. Owner purchase at Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago in 1962. Could have been a salvaged barrel ?

It appears that plating was a standard SA repair procedure, although not often called for. You will remember Art Tuttle's story that he rejected a lot of 200 Gas Trap barrels because they were "undersize in the gas cylinder bearing area," and that they "were sent back for plating" to bring them up to spec.

In my database, I show -2SA RE5B bolts on 524212 (Scott Duff GCA Journal V20- I1 Winter 2005 pg. 27) and 529703. I show 522180 and 523318 with the -12SA RE5B. The highest -12 that I feel comfortable about originality is 576842. On the defunct Garand Data site, 717682 was reported as original with the -12 RE5B bolt but I cannot be sure of originality (very well could be though).

The -12SA RE6B bolts are seen with and without the hole in the right operating lug. I have seen -12SA RE5B bolts with the hole. I'm not sure about the RE5C, however. But I'm thinking they, too, have the hole.

I have 501023, London proof Lend Lease, with barrel S-A 9-41, chromed gas port area, T.E. 1.0. The barrel appears to be swaged (?) where it screws into the receiver. The bolt is -2SA RE2.

Ed, you are correct, the early revision 12 bolts also have the hole in the right bolt lug, I have 613217 with a rev 12 bolt heat lot RE5B and the hole in the right bolt lug but not sure if original

I have 690243 with the -12SA RE6B with the hole and 754677 with the RE6B without the hole.
The -12SA RE5B on 613217 certainly could be original. I'll add that one to my database and note your reservation about originality.
I'm also adding your info on 519576 and 524290. I didn't have those either. Thanks, Robert.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EdG

I have 690243 with the -12SA RE6B with the hole and 754677 with the RE6B without the hole.
The -12SA RE5B on 613217 certainly could be original. I'll add that one to my database and note your reservation about originality.
I'm also adding your info on 519576 and 524290. I didn't have those either. Thanks, Robert.

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I have 676292 from 6-42 with the -12SA RE6B bolt that does have the hole on the right side lug. I believe this to be the original bolt to the rifle as most parts were correct on the gun. What was replaced was probably the work of our dear friend bubba, however the type two lock bar it wears was likely put on it in service.

I dont know that this helps you, but it is what I have to offer as far as info goes. Maybe you can use it in your database or something? Interesting stuff though.

-mdrim13

I have 511125 with Rev 12 RE5C bolt with hole.

mdrim13, your info is very helpful. I am interested in narrowing down when the RE6B bolt comes in and yours is the earliest so far. Thanks.
I do include bolts from those rifles that are not completely original in themselves but appear to be so mostly original that the bolt might or should be considered original to the rifle.
I do respect and accept your evaluation of your bolt.

I have this note with my listing :
Note : This listing includes several rifles that are not 100% original, especially some of the Lend Lease rifles. I have included such bolts and serial numbers because I feel that the bolts are probably original to the particular rifle. When a rifle has been reported as original but I suspect either otherwise or that the bolt possibly has been changed, I have indicated my suspicion in the description.

My note for your info : "rifle nao but mdrim13 believes bolt is" (nao -- not all original)

Joe W, thanks for your info. Your rifle is now the earliest -12SA RE5C I have. I believe the RE5C heat lot is one of the less common in that I've seen it in only one month.

I have only one -2SA RE5C and eight -12SA RE5C bolts on my list. All nine are March '42.
Three -2SA RE5B and nineteen -12SA RE5B. Twenty are March-April '42. One is May '42 and one is July '42.

Ed, some additional data, Original Lend Lease I checked some 20 years ago s/n 471665 D 28291-14 REP 24 B barrel S-A 12-41 BNP proofs in chamber area, bolt is revision 12 RE5B could this bolt be correct ?

Incomplete data on this s/n 539967 D 28291-14 REP 24A barrel is S-A 1-42 , polished bolt and rear lugs rev 12 RE5C

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EdG

I do include bolts from those rifles that are not completely original in themselves but appear to be so mostly original that the bolt might or should be considered original to the rifle.

---

Some more info on the gun in case you would like to note it for your research:

My rifle seems to be honest for the most part. The only thing that is wrong is that bubba put on a laminated stock set from boyds, replaced the gas cylinder because it wasn't "black" enough for him and removed the gas cylinder lock to put on a muzzlebreak, and oh he also painted the thing black with a spray can. He took all of the parts he took off and put them in a storage unit he had and left them there, then didnt pay so they were auctioned. What a shame :(. The bolt seems corrrect, the trigger group seems all good, barrel is original, it had the groved band on the rear handguard, sights seem original except for the type 2 lock bar, op rod is uncut and of the propper drawing numbers and all other small parts seem good. The gun wears a very old and green parkerizing that has a strange pattern of darker spots in it. This discoloration is on all parts on the exterior. They all match in this strange color. This is also part of why I believe most of the parts to be original. Perhaps the parkerizing is original? It looks to have escaped all of the parts being replaced only to be destroyed by bubba.

I would kill to have that SA/GHS right about now. The gas cylinder has been replaced with a correct, the correct cylinder lock is also on it and the wood its in is a post war set I had lying about. Someday I hope to get the correct wood set for it, but Im having trouble finding one that I believe to be original or does not have a serial number stamped into it. I plan on soon starting a thread showing off the rifle, if your interested you can have a look and see what you think. I'll probably do that next week. Good luck on your rsearch.

mdrim13

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EdG

Joe W, thanks for your info. Your rifle is now the earliest -12SA RE5C I have. I believe the RE5C heat lot is one of the less common in that I've seen it in only one month.

I have only one -2SA RE5C and eight -12SA RE5C bolts on my list. All nine are March '42.
Three -2SA RE5B and nineteen -12SA RE5B. Twenty are March-April '42. One is May '42 and one is July '42.

---

Ed, When I got this rifle, 511125, the wood was post war SA and the trigger group was mid to late WW2. The rest of the rifle was correct and in very good shape with a TE of 2 and MW of 1 on the 3 of 42 barrel. Wear patterns on all parts was consistant and I would like to think it is "original", but I really am not sure. It could have been built up from a like new barrel and receiver back when parts were easier to come by. If it is a restoration it is a good one. My gut feeling is that the bolt is original to the barrel but who knows for sure.

Robert, I haven't seen the -12SA RE5B bolt as early as 471665 before, but it puts the time-frame back only one month (Feb. '42) from the earliest I've seen so far (Mar. '42), so it probably is correct. Maybe some others from Feb. '42 will show up. At first thought, I would have probably expected to see a -2SA bolt on this serial number.
The numbers I have close to 471665 are 469733 and 479557. Both have the -2SA RE5A and both are Lend Lease. The -2SA RE2 bolt overlaps in that time also, 463533 and 501023, both LL.

The -2SA RE5C bolt fits nicely with 539967, Mar. '42.

A few years back I noticed that some of the bolts had the polished face on the lugs and did note that on my later data sheets. I need to go back to my earlier sheets and note if those bolts have the polished faces. In my naiveté, I first noted the faces as "chromed", but I think "polished" is correct.

I've seen some bolts that appear polished at first glance, but I'm wondering if that could be wear. The latest bolt I show on a data sheet with a polished lug is a -12SA W9B on my 730585 with the large ordnance wheel EMcF stock. I need to look at that bolt again.

Until this thread, I never paid attention that my list, prior to 471665, did not include any -12 revisions before Mar. '42. The earliest -12 previous to 471665 I have is the RE5C on Joe W's 511125. The earliest RE5B is mine, 522180. Both Mar. '42.

mdrim13 and Joe W, thanks for the additional info.

Robert, is 471665 a Birmingham or London proofed Lend Lease?
I have never seen a muzzle-proofed Lend Lease with the London marks, only Birmingham. I have seen London-proofed muzzles on much later serial numbered rifles.

Ed, On s/n 471665, the Bristish proofs are Birmingham, the letter code looks like a D (I do have a London proofed S-A 8-40 bbl too on a mid '40 receiver) When I made the data sheets back in the early days, I used lamp black and scotch tape to made a record of the British proofs, receiver s/n & heat lot, bbl heat lot and added these to the data sheet. When I made up this data sheet, this rifle belonged to Jim of Du Page Trading Co, he may still have this rifle as it was in his collection.

Thanks, Robert. I figured 471665 was Birmingham proofed since you did list it as BNP. With your experience and expertise, I thought you intended to mean Birmingham but some less experienced fellows have used BNP in their description then posted a pic which showed London proofs. I've probably made that faux pas in the past myself and may again in the future.

I like that idea with the lamp black and scotch tape. I've always wanted to save the butt plate checkering around the lower screw and tried rubbing a pencil over a post-it note or something but was never happy with it. I'll try the lamp black. Thanks.