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Oh, the joys of window shopping! Look what I ran across.
Anybody buying SOULS here on Milsurps?
Just kidding!
Transferable Inglis Bren MK1 .303 British : Machine Guns at GunBroker.com
:nono:
Just for kicks, adding this one too!
Madsen 1950 30/06 LMG Pre 86 Dealer Sample : Machine Guns at GunBroker.com
As a matter of interest only Ameng, is $19,000 good, bad or average price for a transferrable Bren. Why so much(?) money for one that's been welded back together? What is so 'special' about one that's been welded back together? Why is it necessary when you can buy an UN welded one?
Just interested......................
Greetings:
I'm surprised you have not previously discussed this question/topic with Brian...
Although with the recent economy being down... so too the Class 3 market is down... still, an unwelded, transferable, Bren is potentially in the $35,000.00 to $45,000.00 range... if you can find one. The price may be even more if a more collectible type and it's condition warrants.
The price on the auction cited (which has been running for a long time) is probably appropriate... but considering it is rewelded (or is that copper color an indicator of brazed?) then details of when and how it is classified under the NFA are very important to price determination. The "story" about the maker's rewelds being too good is hogwash/a diversion to explain the condition of the visible weld - Because... if it is/was properly registered... then it should have been done with steel weld filler and then totally finished back to "invisible". Proper registration would render the "keep it visible" story irrelevant/unnecessary... So far all potential buyers seem to be leaving this one alone. :eek:
Looks like he used the wrong sticks when welding. I've covered weld perfectly. Sometimes a bit darker, but that's crude. Wrong barrel too. Isn't that a MK 1? Love that C broad arrow...
Thanks WallyG for the details. I was thinking that I just don't see many "Transferables" Bren guns, which is all I qualify for (I am not class 2, class 3 or SOT license) and so this would fall in the realm of possibilities. The one caveat is that I don't have 19k to drop on it at the moment! I had thought that imported, fully transferables, originals would start around 25k, but I am not current on that and I know that there are only a finite number of imported Bren guns (not rewelds) available. I am not sure how many "rewelds" are available on the transferable list?
Peter, like the UK, our system of gun laws make little sense at times and are just bureaucratic Tom Foolery to secure control and money. It is too bad that we no longer allow machine guns from other parts of the world into our country for general consumption. Someone here can explain better, but I believe anything not already in the country before 1986 (?) and registered with the ATF, is not allowed for sale between approved civilians. Machine guns, and other destructive items brought in after the cut off can only be "dealer samples". That is someone in the business of making money through sales to government agencies, etc. Dealer samples are quite a bit less expensive than "transferables", as we refer to them.
Off subject, but then I started the thread, so I guess I can.....
Had never heard all this rumble before. A bit "conspiracy theory", but I never put ANYTHING past our lovely politicians.
Politicians are secretly adding to the machinegun registry, bypassing 922(o)?!? - THR
Any fully transferable Bren whether rewelded or not is worth 19k. That's actually a depressed price as mentioned above because the economy is crap and bigh ticket sales are far and few between. I know of a pre-1986 sample Inglis Mk.1M @ $25k and it's a keeper only for an SOT MG dealer. My two guns are both post-1986 samples and not "keepers" should I decide to hang up the business. I'm lucky to have them though and have $1k invested in the Inglis Mk.2 and $9k in the L4A3. I guess they average out but I know damned well I'll never be able to afford a transferable or even pre-1986 sample at today's prices. A friend told me the actual number of transferable Brens a while back and I can't remember exactly but it's under 30 I think. That's not very many in a country of 300 million people. Brian
Thanks for those answers chaps. I did speak to Brian but thought the answer was interesting enough to warrant putting on the forum.
Can anyone else thow any other spanners into the works......... Bren Guns...., they are just such enigmatic machines.
As yet another aside, Dan Shea and Robert Segal from SAR have my Bren Gun Book up and ready for a final preview in August and they hope, ready in September. It's a MONSTER tome and has truly made them earn their keep in producing it.
Three Cheers! Just in time for Christmas! I'll be extra good till then in hopes of scoring a copy!
"As yet another aside, Dan Shea and Robert Segal from SAR have my Bren Gun Book up and ready for a final preview in August and they hope, ready in September. It's a MONSTER tome and has truly made them earn their keep in producing it."
If you plan to offer signed and/or numbered versions... I'd pay a princely ransom to make the list... please let us know of the details if such a plan is hatched.
Cheers!
WGH
Any chance of the author doing book signings? :D
I'm looking forward to reading it!
Cheers
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
Brian,
I'm surprised at how inexpensive the L4A3 was/is. Is that because it's a post-86? By extension, if that is the case does anyone know if there ARE any pre-86 L4s in the States?
Cheers
Book signings.......... It's a thing I'll need to think about but the book is being published and distributed in the USA and I'm here. Leave it with me for a few days.................
Back to L4A3's. How can they be post 86 when the UE serial numbers show them to be PRE 1986. Or, once again, am I missing something?
Peter,
My understanding of the pre/post-86 definition is that 1986 was the year after which no additional fully transferable machine guns were to be licensed. Therefore the classification, as it pertains to foreign manufactured firearms, is not a function of when it was produced but, rather, when it was imported. Post-86 MGs are supposed to remain in the hands of dealers, law enforcement and the government only.
Again, this is my understanding so, guys, if I've got any portion of this wrong, please feel free to correct me.
Cheers!
You're exactly right. The ban was implemented in May 1986.
Last fall I was at a show and a guy was walking around carrying a Bren, sold it to someone I know for $1,500.00 and the buyer has the ability to do the necessary repairs to make it operable. Big thing was it needed a barrel, well the new owner has a spare so no problem there. Interesting way on how to sell something without paying for a sellers table. The seller obviously went back to his vehicle and then walked around with a old Gevelot .22, I can't remember the model # (possible a E 1??) of the Gevelot but I do know it could be converted to FA but once the trigger was pulled it wouldn't stop 'till the mag was empty.
I know here in Canada the owners of Prohib. licenses are few an soon will be virtually none so getting big money for any Prohib. firearm is very difficult. Just visited a gun store in Ontario and the owner had many prohib. handguns at virtually give away prices, no one to buy them. Selling a Bren or any FA for big money just isn't going to happen and in a few years the only Prohib. licenses will be owned by gun shops or museums, the CFC is just waiting for all the current Prohib. owners to die.
I didn't think the L4A3 I bought was that cheap! Certainly not compared to the trusty Inglis Mk.II. I suppose if it was a pre '86 or fully transferable gun the sky would be the limit for price. I don't think there are many originals in the USA, either restricted or otherwise. That's why I bit the bullet and dropped the cash for it. In my eyes they're simply government rentals if post '86 samples. The good part is that as long as you're licensed and own them, you might just as well shoot the living s--t out of them. They certaionly aren't "safe queens" worth a mint and life is short! I was involved in a demo in the mountains of Virginia in May and we put 1040 rounds down range out of a post sample Bulgarian AK-74 with the owner and staff of GE Fulton & Son from Bisley. We had to set it down, disassemble and remove the bolt assembly frequently to let it cool. It was a nightmare cleaning it when I got home but worth every second for the fun that was had by all with it. Accurate little devils they are too, even on full auto!
Brian,
I hear you, $9K is certainly out of my league, however when I first started looking into getting a Bren in the early 1990s I was told that, when they could be had, expect to pay upwards of $30K. By way of comparason, 9 looks like a steal, especially as I want an L4 more than a .303 to begin with!
Cheers!
Peter, it has nothing to do with the date of manufacture but rather the date of importation. Actually pre- and post-86 have nothing to do the "transferability" (i.e., to non-licensees) of imported machine guns. As far as non-dealers were concerned, no machine guns (or receivers thereof) could be lawfully imported into the USA after 1968. The distinction between pre- and post-86 is of significance only to licensed dealers; essentially it addresses the conditions that attach to acquisition and disposal, and their retention if the license is dropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The bottom line is that a non-dealer is limited in choice to buying a foreign-made gun imported before 1969, or one that was domestically manufactured before May 1986. Those that were properly registered as "unserviceable" (thus exempt from tax) before those cut-off dates may be re-activated upon application and payment of the $200 tax.
Now that I have thoroughly confused you....
M
MG Mike,
That's honestly the simplest explanation of the pre- and post- that I've ever seen.
Thanks!
NS
FINALLY!!!!! I have something I can tell Ian Kurring and John Land. I owe John, he introduced me to the gentleman I bought that last Lithgow sniper from. Both of them have been asking me to find out if you'd finished it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler