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Hi Guys,
I'm looking at buying a Chilean Mauser from a gunshop in my area. The owner thought it was 8mm (hasn't checked), but I thought they only came in 7mm??
Can anyone answer this one for me? This will be my first ex-mil Mauser if I bought it, and I've only ever heard of Chilean Mausers being 7x57.
This one is unmodified and in pretty darn good condition so no conversion is likely and there are no non-canon markings on it so I don't think it was requisitioned by another army..
Hi XLesky !
Can you be a bit more specific on the model? Since the Chilean Army had various Mauser models in use it would be helpful. But from what I know 7x57 - and 7.65 Argentinian as well - were very common calibres in all South American Armies. I have recently seen a Peruvian Mauser which was converted from 7.65 to .308 . This was officially done back in the 50's by the Chilean government.
1895 Chilean Mausers are 7mm unless converted later.
Thanks Aragorn, I was sure they never adopted 8mm.
Thommygun, unfortunatley I'm only starting out in collecting Mausers so can't offer much info sorry. From what I've seen on here it looks like a 95 action (I've got a converted FN 98 and it certainly doesn't have the same action as that).
If one is 7.65, where is it marked? I've read on here that 7.62 NATO conversions have the calibre stamped on the rear of the reciever...
The Chilean Mausers were always in caliber 7x57. If it is a long rifle that looks similar to a Gew98, but without a pistol grip. then it is most probably an 1895 model. This model does NOT have the same "state of the art" as the later Gew98 and its variants (like the Brazilena M1909, also in 7x57, or the Argentine M1908 in 7.65x537) and is a small-ring action, very similar to the M93 Spanish version. So if you are looking for a safe shooter, do not buy any M95 that has been rechambered.
However, if it is a long rifle with a vestigial pistol grip, it might be a Steyr (OEWG) 1912 model. These are large-ring Mausers that are basically 98s in the 7mm chambering. A good rifle if you can get one.
Regrettably, Mauser actions have often been "rebored" by Bubba and his collegues, without the new chambering being properly marked. I was once at the range when the guy next to me started complaining loudly about the (supposedy) .308 rifle he was shooting completely missing the target "and the cases are hard to chamber and really screwed up after firing". I took one look at a fired case and retired to a safe distance, while advising him to stop at once. He was shooting .308 ammo in a rifle chambered for 30-06. No marking on the receiver.
Moral: even if the seller swears by his family honor that the rifle is whatever he claims - check it out before shooting - it's your health at stake, not his!
Patrick
I picked one up a few months ago for $120. I considered it a steal. The condition of the metal is good, no major pitting, some minor pitting under the stock, very good bore. The stock left something to be desired as it was black with grime. I cleaned it up some and got the reddish cast back to it and was able to bring out the markings where you couldn't see them before. Got a bayonet and repro sling for it off ebay and it's looking pretty good.
Ammo is a bit of a problem. Hard to find and when you do it's on the expensive side. Bass Pro Shops, where I will probably never shop again was selling it for $27 a box. I had a gift card and bought two boxes with paying a bit extra. At the rate I shoot things, two boxes will last me a while and give me enough for reloading.
If the guy will let you take the stock off, might be a good idea so you don't get any surprises. This is where they tend to rust the most. Some pitting on these old rifles is to be expected but you don't want any serious holes.
Someone might correct me, but I do not believe any 8mm Mausers were used in Latin America. They really liked the 7mm and Argentina tried to buy 7mm Mausers but the Germans were too busy with the Turkish contract. They had piles of 7.65mm barrel on hand and they talked the Argentine Army into accepting the 7.65mm barrels. Add this: I have heard the Argentine contract was not made in the rifle arsenal. It was too occupied witht the huge Turkish contract. So, not to lose the work, the Germans (DWM) had their commerical plant manufacture the Argentine rifles. They are works of art and well worth the money.
Ecuador used 7.92x57 ammo, as I have a bunch; what the rifle was, I don't know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
"Ecuador: I have never seen one which was manufactured and crested for this country. They did use Mausers, but they were second hand, and/or purchased without markings." Could well be the one and only. I would have expected one country to have purchased some MG42's after WWII ended, but that may not have happened. You are right about the ammunition, as well, so they must have had something eat that ammo.
Thankyou everyone for your responses. Had a good look at the rifle yesterday, it was made by Loewe and according to what I could dig up on the net means it was built in either 1895 or 1896 (all Chileans were made by DWM after January 1897).
As I said, there is no evidence if modification to this rifle at all. The bolt, action and barrel all match so I would believe it is still 7x57.
One more question: being a 105 year-old rifle, how would I ascertain it is still safe to shoot?
Have a gunsmith examine it, especially if you remain unsure about the caliber.
There shouldn't be any serious problems with it unless it's been rechambered for a higher pressure cartridge. These old actions on this model are a little softer and tend to stretch under the higher pressure cartridges.
I'm probably just going to take mine to the range, fire a round and examine the cartridge to see if there are any issues. I've been shooting old rifles my entire life.
Someone is bound to answer "take it to a gunsmith and have it checked out". But while this advice is safe - if the gunsmith knows anything about old service rifles - it is not very helpful. I (and many others) shoot regularly, and in competition, rifles that the average gunsmith who does not understand these old bangers would not be able to confirm as being safe to shoot. Why not? Because by asking that question of a professional person you are implicitly holding him liable for the answer. So his only safe position has to be - condemn, and thus avoid any question of liability. You pay him his fee, and are subsequently none the wiser...Quote:
Originally Posted by XLesky
This is one case where you must have (or rapidly develop) a bit of know-how yourself, and take some responsibility. No-one in this litigious world is going to say it is safe to shoot. That will, ultimately, be your decision. The question has to be turned around - "how would I ascertain it is unsafe to shoot?".
There are a couple of obvious points, and at least one that is not so obvious.
1) Obstructions in the bore.
No joke. A couple of percent of bore restriction can be sufficient to cause ringing - or worse.
2) The slamfire test
Cock rifle on empty chamber. Bang butt hard down on wooden floor or plank. If it fires, it is dangerous.
3) The safety-off fire test
Cock rifle on empty chamber. Put on safety catch. Pull trigger. Rifle must not fire. Release trigger. Put safety to "off".
If the rifle now fires, it is dangerous.
4) Firing pin (a.k.a. striker) tip
Inspect under watchmaker's eyeglass tip must be rounded, not jagged or sharp-edged. Badly shaped tips may pierce the primer.
5) Bolt end play.
Cock the rifle on a chamber loaded with a dummy cartridge (no primer!). The bolt is tight in the action body. because of the firing spring. End play appears to be very low or zero. Now fire the rifle (or release the firing pin in a controlled manner). Check the end play. Firing pin tension has been removed, and the bolt will have some end play. It cannot be zero, otherwise the bolt could bind, but should be much smaller than an acceptable head clearance, otherwise the bolt lugs will really be taking a beating. In bad cases (I had one) the rifle will not reliably fire a live case, because the combination of bolt flying forwards when the sear is released, shoving the cartridge forwards as far as the headspace will allow, and then rebounding back onto the lugs, may mean that the firing pin is unable to detonate the primer. The locking lugs may be already so deformed that the rifle (or at least the bolt assembly) is useless.
6) Dangerous (not cosmetic) rust pitting
For this, you MUST remove the barreled action from the stock. The worst pitting is usually below the "waterline", where it remains unseen and growing for decades.
Use a dentist's pick or needle to dig down into any pits on the barrel or action body.
7) Cracks in the action body
Unless you have access to ultrasonic testing gear, the simple method is to wipe over the clean action body with a highly volatile liquid, such as acetone. As the liquid evaporates, it will remain longest in any cracks, which will therefore show up as a dark line for a few seconds.
8) Splits in the neck (it's no fun if the rifle folds up on you when you fire it).
Place the neck of the stock on your knee, and press down with your hands to flex the stock at the neck. If you see any cracks, leav the gun unless you know how to fix it/are prepeared to have it properly fixed.
9) Wrong chambering (i.e. the marking on the rifle - if any - does not match the actual chambering).
ALWAYS check the actual chambering on ANY old rifle.
Please note: you can conduct all the above tests yourself.
What have I not listed? - Headspace! The chances are high that if you take your rifle to a gunsmith who is not milsurp-savvy, he will stick in a SAAMI headspace gauge, see that the chamber swallows a NO GO gauge, and say the rifle is dangerous because of excessive headspace. I would like to be given all old service rifles that have been condemned in this way - I could get rich on the sizeable fraction that are perfectly good shooters.
In general, you can expect a huge number of non-US made service rifles to fail when tested with SAAMI gauges. The topic flares up again and again, especially on Lee-Enfield forums. Basically, service rifles have generous chambers compared with modern CIP or SAAMI specifications. Really unacceptable headspace (for safety, not for case stretching) for an old service rifle is usually way beyond gauge limits.
Do the tests 1-9 yourself and decide. Nobody can give you a guarantee, so if you do not have the experience yourself, go through the tests with someone who does.
Patrick
Just looked at the current Sportsman's Guide catalog that came a couple days ago and they are offering for sale both the 1895 rifle in 7mm and the 1895 carbine in 7mm and 308. The carbine example they picture looks pretty rough but this is the first time they've offered this version that I'm aware of. They've been selling the rifles for several months. Prices in my opinion are on the high side but if you're interested, I'm sure they are on their website.
Matching bolt, barrel and action. You are certainly good to go. You could easily have a local gunsmith double-check your safe headspace. Watch when he tries to buy it off you. A keeper, for sure.
California Steve is right on!
My practice when trying out an old one for the first time is very simple: check it over completely, then first round from the hip. If I still have both hands, it's safe.
Your rifle is all-matching and so was factory-tested to very rigid specifications with a massive overload before it left the factory. It is exactly the same as buying a brand-new rifle which has been in storage for a long time. Don't waste your money getting the headspace checked on this one; it would not have left the factory if it wasn't okay when they made it. I SERIOUSLY doubt that it has been shot enough to have worn it completely out!
Patrick Chadwick is your friend. The checks which he gives you are one which you can perform yourself. Do as he says and between you yourself, your old rifle, and friend Patrick, YOU will be well on your way to knowing a lot more about 95 Mausers than 95% of gunsmiths.
These are fine old rifles and they can be devastatingly accurate. For proof, ask the US Army and the British Army. Your rifle is identical to the rifles used by the Spanish to inflict such awful casualties against the US inb the Spanish-American War... and also to the Boer Model 96 which shot the pants off the British Army in South Africa. As a matter of historical fact, the Boers actually used many Chilean-stamped Model 95 rifles, just restamped them OVS or ZAR; the factory made up new rifles for the delayed delivery to Chile.
All I wish is that I could find a BARREL for one of these! Mine is toast!
You have a great old historical piece there. I do hope you enjoy it for many years to come.
Nanner nanner I have one :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
It was neither manufactured for, nor crested for Ecuador.
This one came in with the thousands of Commission rifles from Ecuador. It has a brand new Czech .318" groove barrel installed. Cost $100 from Southern Ohio Gun Distributors.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8/ge02vi-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8/ge09vi-1.jpg
As for Latin American use of 8x57mm. Yes. Nicaragua was one. You heard of Ollie North? Colonel Ollie North, President Regan's man about town? You heard the term, "Contra"? You hear the term, "Contra Scandal"? It was about the United States sending GUNS to the anti-commie civilians in Nicaragua, the "contras".
What rifles ended up in Nicaragua?
K98k Mausers from Israel in, first 8x57, then 7.62x51 Nato as the ammo logistics were easier to deal with.
Among these rifles in Nicaragua a bunch of very distinctly marked K98k floated to the surface. They had a two letter inspector stamp on the left side wall that wasn't German or Israeli. It was S.S. and G.B.( Carl Bjorkenstam). Stem Stenmo was a Swedish military inspector from 1942-1946. One of the rifle series he inspected and marked was the Swedish m/39 K98 rifle and the K98k m/40 8x63mm rifle for machinegun squads. When Sweden surplused them off in the 1950s they were purchased by Israel, who rebarreled them to 8x57. So the actual and true lineage of those particular rifles was proven with those two letters stamped into the rifle. When these same rifles were imported as curio-relic firearms and sold off by Century Arms and others they were pretty beat up and neglected. But where they'd been and who had them explained a great deal. They were certainly better than no rifle which is why Ronnie sent them. For more fun historical facts you might research how Ronnie and Ollie bypassed Congress to fund weapons and ammo to the Contras.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3L4s...eature=related
I tell you a little story from when I worked in Lost Angeles at a large public utility. This Hispanic dude drives in one day to make a delivery. Back in those days I had long blond hair, blue eyes, red beard. Six feet tall 200 lbs. Once in a while I was called "Popeye" because of my beefy forearms.
So this guy he delivers a large shipment of liquid soap for the steam cleaner (for diesel engines and such). He looks at me for the longest time and has this glazed over look on his face. Now, being native to L.A. and being who I am I get along very well with all manner of "whoever", no matter where they're from. So I say howdy doo (in Spanish) and since I've had a couple/few Mex female friends and spent a year with a Peruvian Inca woman (Maria, who's senior year at San Marcos University for her Bachelor of Science degree included... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bZZt1zs60) I can fake a Spanish accent pretty good as long as the sentences aren't too long. You shake your head and wave your hands around saying "si si" a lot and things generally go ok.
So this guy is from Nicaragua. He says he remembers ME from his village. That I was teaching his village how to shoot guns and how to clean and such. Mausers. 8x57 Mausers. As soon as I started talking guns and Mausers he was smiling like we were long lost brothers who hadn't seen each other in 50 years. I suddenly had a best friend and no amount of denial would convince him that I wasn't a CIA civilian ex-military "contractor". I ask him, "did you kill many communistas?". He says yes, many. I say back to him, "muy bueno, amigo". Every time he made deliveries he'd sit down and we'd talk like we knew each other our whole lives.
True story from long ago.
Dutch