1905 SA bayonet dated 1921, opinions wanted

This should of been posted along with the Owen Sub machine gun bayonet I purchased, wasnt too sure if its a repro, number matches the year etc, but looked too good to me and never seen grips like this (i dont collect these just bought it to go with a rifle) any info or opinion from 1905 experts would be of help.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3051-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3052-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3053-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3054-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3056-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3057-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3058-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3059-1.jpg

The blade look good but the grips are repo.

Thanks Jim,

Main problem i had, was not being able to compare it with anything "in the flesh" plus the price was too good to walk away from , they normally demand a high price in the UK.

I think the blade is an arsenal refinish which isn't a crime unless it offends you, but the grips look like something we've seen from China I think. Go ask Carl at BAyonet Collection Presentation or look at bayonet collection presentation for pics. With any luck Carl will catch this thread and chime in.

The timber grips are obviously wrong and I would also be suspicious of the grinding work over the mounting slot in the pommel. I've only got a couple of these and never seen one dated that year to compare, but my gut feeling taking into account the overall finish etc would be that it is most likely a reproduction. I've been known to be wrong before though.! Cheers.

Here is one of mine 1921 M1905 bayonets. Yours looks good except for the grips.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...90151921-A.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...90151921-B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...90151921-C.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...90151921-D.jpg

Thanks Mark1,

Was getting a bit concerned but the number and lettering is identical, plus the finish.

Has the original bayonet got the two rivets through the crossguard.? Can't quite make them out from the photos. They are easily visible on the example Mark1 has provided for comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shippingsteel

Has the original bayonet got the two rivets through the crossguard.? Can't quite make them out from the photos. They are easily visible on the example Mark1 has provided for comparison.

---

I can just make them out with the naked eye, but cant get a picture. any idea on the grips?

I'm not saying that this is definitely a repro or not - its always very hard just going off the photos. I do know that reproductions are becoming an increasing problem for all collectors, and I think our best form of defence is to compare notes, and even better to compare examples.
The manufacturers are getting better and better all the time, and their markings are becoming very accurate. One thing I've noticed is that some of the minor details are still looking diferent, this mainly relates to differences in the tool markings. Because they are made on different machines with different tools, it makes sense that these markings will be slightly different.
If you compare closely the two ricassos you will notice a difference in the shape of the tool cuts that have been left in the end of the fuller and the end of the true edge. Also the differences in distance between these cuts and the markings and the crossguard. These minor details are some of the things that I go on anyway, other people may have their own opinions on whats valid or not. Cheers.

It looks like a post war refinish - from th eParkerising - but someone has changed the grips, they woudl probably have been the black plastic ones if you want to make it look lik eit was last reworked then I woudl find a bad cut down and swap them over. The original wood grips coudl be used as well, again grab them off a M1 cut down. The blade and markigns look right, and nothing like any of the repro's I've seen. Try US Military Knives Bayonets Machetes there is a lot of info on there but i think you'll find the same.

Thanks Carl,

was waiting for your expert opinion, have you any pics of a repro to compare? as Shippingsteel has pointed out, would be good if we could give the collector an idea what to look for.

Had a look at the US Military Knives Bayonets Machetes and sent an email to Gary. cheers for the info

Thanks for all the input received, Had an email from Gary, at:

US Military Knives Bayonets Machetes

(there was a pic to compare but couldn,t copy it) This is what he quoted:


1. The grips are modern made, sold as reproductions for the past several years and quite different in the grooves from the originals. Original grips are quite hard to find and normally very expensive when found, so these not so good replacements are fairly common. They are made in India by the way.

The rest of the bayonet looks OK. They were originally Parkerized and will normally show the difference in color as shown just under the letters SA on yours. Although this MAY be a later arsenal refinish, I suspect that it is the original finish as that color change will normally not appear on a refinish. All marks appear correct. As seen in the photo above, the two pins through the guard are usually quite hard to see, and if you CAN clearly see them, it normally means they have been replaced.