Model 1903-A3 National Match - Need '03 Expert Help - More Pics

Greetings

I purchased a 1903-A3 which had been modified as a match rifle. The obvious modifications consisted of the additions of: (1) a Redfield International rear sight on a base marked "WIN MOD 52", (2) a globe front sight, (3) polished follower, and (4) an aftermarket target stock. It still has a factory barrel on it, and the bolt is not polished.

My intent was to use this as a match rifle - can't see a front post anymore - do not care for 'space guns' - I like the '03.

After I brought it home I was surprised to find that depending on where the Redfield Olympic was positioned, either the bolt could not be operated or the stripper clip guide was blocked meaning the rifle cannot be used in across the course matches.

This was not a big deal as I am no fan of the International sight. Decided to put a vintage Lyman on the right side of the receiver. I consulted Brophy to find out which type of Lyman 48 to look for.

Another surprise on page 205 - Brophy discusses the aborted Model 1903-A3 National Match project. Aborted because the Redfield Intl sight either blocked the bolt or clip guide.

Per Brophy 140 of these were made then sold thru DCM.

If this is one of the 140, I do not want to drill & tap it for a Lyman.

If it is not, I will put a Lyman on it and punch some paper, hopefully in the general vicinity of the black part.

Any of you guys ever seen one of these things, and is there any way to determine if this is or is not one of the 140?

Regards,

Jim

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bolt should be marked NS, polished, and serialed to the rifle. should have a milled trigger guard, and floorplate, as well as follower,
looks like someone has ground the reverse dove tail from the rear bridge, so any collectors value went away with the grinding....i dont think that one is one of the A3 NM rifles...
more pics, and some of the sight,,,,and of the screws drilled for the sight would helpfull...military installation of the sight would be nice...grind marks ect..would be other then military imstall.

I intend to post more photos tomorrow plus info on trigger guard & floorplate.

Did the armory grind off the rear sight dovetail on the A3-NM rifles?

I have never seen a good photo of an A3 NM much less the real thing.

Based on the law of averages if nothing else, I am leaning towards this being a civilian modification which duplicated the armory screw-up or the owner did not care about using stripper clips.

The current bolt not being polished makes me think civilian modification. Can't imagine why someone would swap out a slicked up bolt for a parkerized version but the bolt operates smooth as glass.

Regards

Jim

no, they would not have ground off the sight mounting dovetail..the real ones iv seen had early steel Palma Redfield sights, though close to what you have,..they are different.
the 52 sight is a .22 cal rifle sight..the Palma sight used for the A3 NM is a high power long range sight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

no, they would not have ground off the sight mounting dovetail..the real ones iv seen had early steel Palma Redfield sights, though close to what you have,..they are different.
the 52 sight is a .22 cal rifle sight..the Palma sight used for the A3 NM is a high power long range sight.

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I added more photos to my original post

The rear sight base on this rifle is marked WIN 52 with an electric pencil.

According to Brophy the 03-A3 Natl Match had the Redfield International rear sight. He did not mention the base.

Whoever ground off the original rear sight base was a craftsman. Zero grind marks and apparently the receiver was re-parkerized afterwards. You can see a slightly different color where the original base was.

The barrel is an RA 4-43. The barrel is smooth - no tool marks plus the Ordnance Shell is very faint. Barrel may have been polished and refinished. The barrel finish color is black. The receiver is grey-green parkerizing.

The bolt and all the small parts are Remington. Floorplate, follower & trigger guard are forged.

Regards

Jim

hard to really say,., maybe someone has a SRS list that can see if its a hit...
you could write redstone, and have them do a record search... im saying no...nice rifle...but not a 1903A3 NM...the ones iv seen, and one i held and drooled on,..had the reverse dovetail still on..
all the barrels will be darker. they are much softer then the receiver.. anyone that does parkerizing could have refinised the metal..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

hard to really say,., maybe someone has a SRS list that can see if its a hit...
you could write redstone, and have them do a record search... im saying no...nice rifle...but not a 1903A3 NM...the ones iv seen, and one i held and drooled on,..had the reverse dovetail still on..
all the barrels will be darker. they are much softer then the receiver.. anyone that does parkerizing could have refinised the metal..

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I could not find much info on 03-A3 NM on the web. One reference stated that the armory did not make a record of the serial #'s.

You mentioned contacting Redstone - as in Redstone Arsenal or a member here called Redstone?

I took a closer look at the photos in Brophy and you are correct - the rear sight base is still there. This rifle is a civilian modified piece.

Guess I'll shop around for a Lyman 48, take it to a match and scare the heck out of the mouse gunners.

Where did you find a real 03-A3 NM?

iv seen 3 actually, one at the Cody weapons museum, one at the Rockisland museum, and saw on FS at a local gunshow, got to hold that one..
Redstone ars, has all the small arms info.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

iv seen 3 actually, one at the Cody weapons museum, one at the Rockisland museum, and saw on FS at a local gunshow, got to hold that one..
Redstone ars, has all the small arms info.

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I'm about 90 miles from Rock Island Arsenal. My brother's last command was headquartered at RIA. Went to the museum a couple of times when I visited him but did not have the chance to spend much time there.

Thanks for all the info. The good news is I get to use the rifle rather than stashing it in the safe.

Regards

Jim

Nice rifle. Not a true 03-A3 NM. But still a nice rifle.

Yes very nice. Looks like it would be a fine shooter.

-Jeff L

There is a "restored" M1903A3NM rifle in a gun store here in NJ. It was a drill rifle disposed of by the CMP. It had the original receiver holes for the Olympic sight. A base was made by modifying a "Win Mod 52" base, and mounting a correct sight. A NM N.S. bolt, a '03 NM trigger, and a polish of the bolt rails after re-park completed the project.

Tom: I thought all of the 03-A3NM rifles were retained at Rock Island. They were sold off in the DCM sales of the late 1960's. The guys at Rock Island knew exactly what they were doing. Many of the NRA Big Wigs "luckily" drew one. I understand this is what Harlen Carter drew years ago. This is rthe first i've ever heard on a 03-A3NM Drill Rifle.