Thoughts on the ideal farm/home and "bug-out" AR

I haven't done much with ARs in the last three years, having switched to back to an AK back then. Recently I sold off my last AK (long, sad story). Realizing that I would build another AR again, I have been accumulating it "one piece at a time" as Johnny Cash said. I had ammo and mags still, as well as some left over parts when I recently started it. About 2 months ago, I picked up a S&W M&P 15 lower.

Initially, I was going to do another M4gery, but then I began thinking. One of the virtues of the AR platform in its basic form, is its light weight and the light weight of the 5.56x45 round. The M16A1 I carried in the Army in the early 70s, the GAU/5A I carried later in the Air Force Reserve, and the Colt Commando XM177E2 I carried for awhile as a LE trunk weapon hall had one thing in common - THEY WERE LIGHT!!!!!!

Being almost 60, a 6 pound rifle is a good thing! That is why I love my USGI CMP issued Inland M1 Carbine.

With that in mind, and since I can only afford one build, I decided to do as light of weight AR as I can: 16" lightweight "pencil" barrel (1/9' ER Shaw). 16 inches of RIFLED barrel will still give you close to 3150 or 3200 FPS from good M193 ball. Then add an M16A1 upper (lighter than an A3 with optics and BUIS), a set of lined CAR handguards rather than the bulkier and heavier M4 double heat shield ones), 4 position Fiberlite CAR stock rather than heavier 6 position M4 stock (I have both, but the 4 position is lighter). Most of the time it will have an M16A1 birdcage, though at times I may sacrifice "light" for "cool" and use the slip over XM177 FH I have. Finish it off with an aluminum Colt 20 round mag, it is good to go, AND LIGHT!

I often see M4geries with tons of added stuff on half a dozen rails everywhere. I picked up one friends M4gery that with all the junk on it weighed dang near 10 lbs! I suggested he get a wheel barrow to carry it. Don't get me wrong. EOT, Aimpoint M2s, 3x magnifiers, lasers, red dots flash lights, bipods hand grips, double mag holders, whistles, and bells all have their place. For Bradley or Stryker borne troops in an urban situation they have their applications. They are fighting a war every day.

I really appreciated the light weight of the XM177 or M1 carbine when chasing bad guys through the woods and hills of Central Kalifornia. The only additions to mine will be an M60 patrol sling for over the weak hand shoulder carry and my trusty old 23 year old Galati Int. 6 pack mag shoulder bag. I am not a Commando, and I am not assaulting any malls (sorry, I couldn't resist), but want something light, effective, and handy.

Let the flames begin!

No flames here, sounds like a great set-up. On my two CARs I went with flat top uppers and Trijicon Reflex sight systems in 4.5moa. On one (Olympic Arms) I have a fixed A1 butt stock, SUM barrel, early small lined hand gaurds, surefire remote switch tach light and A2 FH. The other (CMMG) I went with a six position butt stock, medium weight M4gery (I like that BTW) barrel, M4 hand gaurds and A2 FH. On both I went with Colt 20 round magazines as well. I just like them more than the 30s.

The only thing I would change on your build is the barrel....I'd consider a Daniel Defense pencil barrel, 1/7 twist, Cold hammer forged, It's a better barrel and I don't think the price difference would be that much. 1/7 twist alllows you to use bullets up to 77gr, 1/9 can't stabilize bullets that heavy, it'll also shoot 55gr bullets very well. I have one, I had a AR built by G&R tactical using Daniel Defense, upper with a 16" CHF pencil bbl, A2 FH, DD BCG, DD lower with a G&R lower parts kit, Magpul stock, grip, rear BUIS,triggerguard, RAS rail, came with 4rail covers, and VHG This set up without Aimpoint installed, weighed 6.0lbs I've been using it in a Carbine class and it has been flawless.I love the light weight. One thing can say, when shooting a long string, the pencil bbl WILL heat up quickly...But, it'll also cool down quickly as well, Check out G&R tactical...They're good people, G&R Tactical

:thup:I'm in your camp as well, imarangeaster. I like a LW rifle. I just vacillate between the LW 20" and the 16".

If it just HAD to be one, I reckon the 20" would win out, though. However, that one also sports a LW bolt carrier and an early no fwd. assist M16 upper receiver. Iron night sights on both.

Still, the balance of the 16" w/ the short handguards is MUCH better, although the weight change is small.

:dunno:

I'd replace the front handguard with a Magpul MOE. It's still a basic handguard and inexpensive, but adding the plastic rail will allow mounting a light.

Having carried in my time an M16A2, M4 without and M4 with light, I spent a lot of time clearing buildings in the dark or semidark. NO long gun I own unless it's a heritage piece or simply incapable will go light-less. You don't have to leave it on, but having the option is nice.

A Surefire G2-LED and a LaRue LT707 mount would finish it off, throw the light in the bag for when you need it or not. Hawkepak makes several bags that hold both mags and water, snacks, basic gear (think of them as an old map case on steroids), quality is far better than the Galati.

I'd add an Aimpoint myself, simply because they don't add much weight, they DO vastly improve hit probability, especially for older guys. My dad ran a 16, 16A1 and A2 in Vietnam and then the Gulf war, and the first time he tried an Aimpoint was in a dark forest hunting pigs... all of a sudden he could SEE . :)

A Vickers VCAS or Viking Tactics quick-adjust 2point sling is no heavier than an M60 sling and more versatile (having spent a lot of time with both, as well as a 60).

I guess I am just old-fashioned. When I had an MP5 in the late 80s, I used an HK 3 point tactical sling. It was OK. I even cobbled together my own version of it for the XM177 in the mid-90s before they were readily available. My XM177 clone I just finished, I just use a Vietnam era Nylon, since it is a house/farm gun. I might dig out my 3 point I made way back when (I still have it) if we were talking WTSHTF. By the way, I picked up an NC Star 4x22 Colt scope clone since my eyes suck. I couldn't afford $300 for the real deal, so I got this one for $32 delivered. I had one on my SP1 CAR-15 in the 90's and it worked great at 100-200 yards. ALways returned to zero when I re-mounted it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...XM177E2a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...XM177E2b-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by jmoore

:thup:I'm in your camp as well, imarangeaster. I like a LW rifle. I just vacillate between the LW 20" and the 16".

If it just HAD to be one, I reckon the 20" would win out, though. However, that one also sports a LW bolt carrier and an early no fwd. assist M16 upper receiver. Iron night sights on both.

Still, the balance of the 16" w/ the short handguards is MUCH better, although the weight change is small.

:dunno:

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I actually struggled between building a slick side using an Air Force M16 upper and this XM. The XM is handier, and also I built it with a 1/9 barrel so it should handle most weight bullets up to 75 grains. A 1/12 would only do 55s and some 62s! In addition, people were asking stupid high prices for retro upper halves! Three years ago you could not give away a retro AR, and upper halves were $250 to $275 from CDNN. Now people are getting $400 without bolt groups.

I agree with the shorter uppers and light weight. Mine has a heavy bbl now but I'm looking to change it for a 14" M4gery. I kept A1 upper and 6 position stock with Reed Knight front. I can put the forward grip on so it doesn't torque my gimbly elbow anymore. It's handy enough that the wife likes to shoot it too.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

I actually struggled between building a slick side using an Air Force M16 upper and this XM. The XM is handier, and also I built it with a 1/9 barrel so it should handle most weight bullets up to 75 grains. A 1/12 would only do 55s and some 62s! In addition, people were asking stupid high prices for retro upper halves! Three years ago you could not give away a retro AR, and upper halves were $250 to $275 from CDNN. Now people are getting $400 without bolt groups.

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Fortunately, I bought a couple of CMMG LW 20" barrels a couple or three years back w/ the 1/7 twist option, but haven't felt the need to use them yet.

My deer hunting w/ the 1/12 twist Colt 20" bbl and the 55gr. Sierra Gamekings has been satisfactory beyond my wildest expectations! Scoped, the package weighs 7 1/4 lbs. (The scope weighs about 14 oz. w/ the rainguards/sunshades tie-wrapped on.)

Found the old 2009 photo (rifle hanging from the freshly killed deer's antlers) and couldn't resist:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC009581-1.jpg
That's inner tube hanging off the rear of the scope and on the handguard (to ward off rain).

Link to the deer hunting thread and more info on the rifle scattered over a few pages :
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16901&page=2

ALMOST my favorite AR type upper/ rifle. The Knight's still wins even if it isn't any lighter and has only a 16" bbl.

Link to recent (brief) range trip w/ the Knight's (w/photos):
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24883

I am suprised that the thread didn't last longer! :)
I assembled my last two AR's part... by part... One has a Delton barrel, the other a Beaver Creek. Both are 1x9 twist if my memory serves me. I went with 16in H-Bars on both (but do prefer 20in).
Both uppers have the traditional carry handle along with the forward assist. These were purchased as blems at a gunshow for $25.00 each about 4 years ago. One lower was burned out of an 80% receiver from Tactical Machining (magwell being done).
I got the telescoping stock from Copes for $40.00 or so. Plastic butt suits my needs. The basic difference between both guns is the handguards. One with the M4, the other I mounted RAILS.
They both look very similar to Imarange's pic.
And yes, it porked out with the addition of the rails!
I agree on the ability to mount lights. While you don't need all the tacticool stuff, a light is convenient to have in the dark! ;)

I will post photos later. Anyone with other AR builds?

I use the Chinese SKS and Tokarev pistol as my personal home defense weapons. Light, accurate, powerful and reliable. My CCW is Kel Tec P3AT. This is my choice. No institution tells me what I use or issues it.. Gary

arado,
You hit on a good point. Any weapon in this scenario should:
1. fit the users unique physical needs.
2. Be simple enough to repair or clean.
3. Work for the application.
I live out in farm country, so I have a variety of "things" that I choose from!

Since this is a thread on the AR, I am going to post what I have. :)
First up is my postban AR. It was built on an Oly lower and has a burris 3-9 scope. A2 buttstock with a 20in barrel. A USMC armorer suggested that I stick with a 20in due to the ballistics . Since I wasn't doing any house clearing, and have distance, the option seemed good.


Rifle performs well and shoots anything I put into it.
Next up are more recent builds. I purchased a Roggio lower and built up the components from parts. I got a deal on UTG components so built with these in mind.




This AR weigh's a bit. I strapped on the UTG telescoping stock and forward grip. And yes, it is plastic. I have noticed some displacement of the "locking plastic pin". The rails are also UTG and hence the weight. I prefer some sort of optics and enjoy the original optics mounted on early Colt AR's. Being on a budget, I purchased a NC Star 4x22wide angle. I have a Timberwolf SS FCG and a MOE trigger housing. I love this due to control factor. I can also mount lights or "tacticool" stuff to it.

Next up is an AR that I build out of a TTM 80% lower. I ground this sucker out, and assembled form various parts.

It has a Beaver Creek 1x9 heavy barrel 16in carbine barrel. I built this for lightweight duty. I couldn't imagine having a pencil thin barrel on this!:eek: I consider this my "go to gun" or truck gun due to its light weight!

UTG is airsoft gear. I'd ditch it.

A Colt 6920 carbine took my first "less than 20" barrel length AR" deer recently. It surely is easier to hunt, overall, than with the full sized version, but the ballistic performance seems less noteworthy.

More detail here:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16901&p=149847#post149847

This one would be my choice, easy to handle and powerful enough. And with some tuning parts its ready to use.

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Originally Posted by gunner

This one would be my choice, easy to handle and powerful enough. And with some tuning parts its ready to use.

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Who is the manufacturer? Can't quite make it out.

Hi jmoore,

the manufacturer is Oberland Arms near my location. He is wellknown for his high quality products.
Here´s a Link to it

Oberland Arms - Where innovation is @ home

Herr Gunner! Wie geht's Mensch! Alles hier ist sehr Schoen.

I weiss nicht das Sie sind ein AR15 Waffe Liebhaber.

Ich jetz lese das Buch Sie gab Mir "Graue Woelfe in blauer See," aber Ich lese sehr langsam wenn auf Deutsch!

Groess Gott

Bernhard

Hallo und Gruess Gott Bernhard,

nice tot talk to you again! I like the AR15 rifles from this maker, they are really accurate and high quality ones. Hope the book is good to read, i liked it for the informations of the mediteranian submarines war. I hope you´re doing well?!

Viele Gruesse

Ulrich