No5 Mk1 notches in the butt

I see a few threads back a No5 (jungle carbine) was talked about that had been used in the Malaya emergency, I have in my collection a No5 Mk1 ROF (7/46) that was allegedly use by the New Zealand army in Malaya.
The rifle has some interesting notches in the butt, I didn’t pay them much attention before, but when I read the thread someone said about “kill marks” they have been cut into the stock with a knife, can anyone tell if this is what is on my No5?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

The only guy that knows for sure is the one that did it.

nice rifle too

I think they're just tool marks where someone has tried to level off a tight-fitting buttplate.

The rifle doesn't look like its ever been used on active service, and that would be a strange place to put "kill notches", even if such things were likely. The nature of that type of infantry war meant that it would be highly unlikely that any Malaya veteran would have racked up ten distinct rifle kills.

Should you ever be captured by your enemy the last thing you would want to have is "notches" for your kills on your rifle.

The ones on my rifle were crudely cut on the top of the wrist of the stock going across it with all of the marks parallel to each other although after looking at one more closely I think it is just a coincidental ding as it looks more like an impression/dent than a cut. My rifle also looks pretty used. You can't look at it and say it saw little service.

Bigstick and others........... I'd just read Enfield .303T's comments above, then read them again, then inwardly digest............ From an active service viewpoint, I think notches on the butt are the imagination of cowboy and western film writers. I could be wrong, having never been in in a cowboy film..................

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Bigstick and others........... I'd just read Enfield .303T's comments above, then read them again, then inwardly digest............ From an active service viewpoint, I think notches on the butt are the imagination of cowboy and western film writers. I could be wrong, having never been in in a cowboy film..................

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But, if they had been cut by a soldier, there will be record of it- a charge sheet!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Bigstick and others........... I'd just read Enfield .303T's comments above, then read them again, then inwardly digest............ From an active service viewpoint, I think notches on the butt are the imagination of cowboy and western film writers. I could be wrong, having never been in in a cowboy film..................

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The only reason it poppped into my head that they might possibly, in my case, be what I think they might be (could just be a really interesting coincidence for all I know) is that I saw pictures of some Boer rifles with similar markings which were stated to have been tally marks as well as pictures of a couple of rifles from other forces with similar markings. Probably more common on Boer rifles though since most were personally owned rather than issued. For all I know my rifle could have been scratched by something which would leave parallel marks, I'm just not sure what that would be, yet.

I couldn't agree more Peter, I was not implying anyone would do it unless they were "nuts" and in need of the closest "shrink". Most veterans I have talked to rarely if ever talk about their "kills". I did many years ago see a few nothches in the stock of a rifle that had PV carved in the stock.. Although never proven there was a thought it might have been owned once by Poncho Villa, it was the right gun, came from the right area and also the right time for ownership. He was a folk hero to many Mexians, at times a bit of a Robin Hood.

I have a collection of 14 Boer rifles and have had a similar number through my hands over the years, and examined literally hundreds of other examples. I have never seen or heard mentioned "kill notches" on any Boer rifle, until I read an article on Boer Mausers in the HBSA journal - an article which was, incidentally, peppered with errors. I have read every Boer diary published, and without exception the burghers write of killing khakis with the greatest regret. Ron Bester's definitive work on Boer rifles, and Dave George's 2 volumes on carved Boer rifles, make no mention of "kill notches". Glorifying "kills" is completely contrary to the Boer spirit of those times. In my humble opinion, any notches on a Boer rifle will have another explanation altogether.

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Originally Posted by RobD

I have a collection of 14 Boer rifles and have had a similar number through my hands over the years, and examined literally hundreds of other examples. I have never seen or heard mentioned "kill notches" on any Boer rifle, until I read an article on Boer Mausers in the HBSA journal - an article which was, incidentally, peppered with errors. I have read every Boer diary published, and without exception the burghers write of killing khakis with the greatest regret. Ron Bester's definitive work on Boer rifles, and Dave George's 2 volumes on carved Boer rifles, make no mention of "kill notches". Glorifying "kills" is completely contrary to the Boer spirit of those times. In my humble opinion, any notches on a Boer rifle will have another explanation altogether.

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Interesting. I wonder if perhaps they may have beenfaked as well, since I did see photos. Perhaps someone thinking it would up the value or something. I am quite willing to accept that something simply caused marks of this type, as it seems very plausible.