People who call a Mosin Nagant a Nagant.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rmynagan-1.jpg
Printable View
People who call a Mosin Nagant a Nagant.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rmynagan-1.jpg
I agree with you on this one gandog.
Second highest rating pet peeve: People who pronounce Mosin as "Moy-sin"! :confused:
People who call a P 08 a `LugAr´
...... people who call a Sht LE Mk1 a "No1 Mk1":banghead:
How about the ubiquitous "mouser", the occasional "gerrand" ?
Okay, time for my big mouth.
I know a Ukrainian fellow who pronounces it "Moisin". It's his name. I definitely agree, however, that "Nagant" is a misnomer; the Nagant Brothers designed only the MAGAZINE. Rest of the rifle was done by Capt. Sergei Ivanovich Mo(i)sin..... or possibly Sergay Ivanovitch Mohsin or Mossin, depending on your source material and when it was printed. Thankfully, the Russians dropped about a dozen letters from their alphabet, back about 1895, more in the 1920s.
"Mouser" is a direct translation, so I don't regard it as too terribly terrible. Besides, my "Mouser" is a .43" carbine: BIG mice!
What I DO regard as completely unforgivable is people referring to an honest LEE rifle as an "Enfield". I reserve "Enfield" for the Pattern 1839, Pattern 1853, Pattern 1858, Pattern 1861 and the two early Marks of Sniders. The term resurfaces as the sometimes-designation for the Pattern 1913, P.-'14 and M-1917 rifles. But a LEE rifle is a LEE rifle, although generally it has an Enfield-rifled barrel as opposed to the earlier Metford-rifled barrel.
The ROSS, on the other hand, always should be referred to (in caps, of course) as The Finest Rifle Ever Constructed. Doubtless some poor, misinformed soul will take umbrage at this modest statement.
We should try to make clear exactly which critter we mean, especially when asking for help. If someone asks for help with a "1914 Enfield", they could be talking about two entirely different rifles! Makes it even worse when they announce that theirs is a .30-06 (US), an 8x57 (Belgian) or a 7mm (Costa Rica 1934)!
Or people that call all Lugers P.08.Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Oh, come!
I might have the temperament, but he is MUCH prettier than I am!
Or is there somebody hiding in the picture with an Enfield-MoIsin-Mouser-LugAr-Gerrand that I can't see?
BTW, just got another Kar. '71. Being that the plural of MOUSE is MICE, perhaps I now have MICERS!
Pet peeve............ What about a bloke who's read a few books and tells you all about the Bren gun, but more especially about just how accurate it was. And he should know, because his uncles brother who knew someone in the NAAFI in Tripoli who had an uncle who was a cook in ........ And suddenly they're there telling you all about them!
Or the other, that the Sten gun...................., well, it does everything and anything, depending where you are listening.
But I do find that the older I get, the more peeves I get and the easier it is to peeve me. Is this a common theme?
I rather think that Captain Laidler has struck the nail right upon its little flat head.
This points to a good reason why those of us who mess about with these things, either recreationally or professionally, MUST be Good People.
If we are not, then we will be faced with Millions of Years of being told by an endless succession of boors (not to be confused with Boers, who can be nice people) that, in my own case, the Mark III Ross was the most useless POS ever issued and the bolts always blow back and......
............... poor Captain Laidler will be sitting on the next pile of coal and listening as an endless succession of boors tell him of their Bisley successes with the Bren, house-clearing with Stens with tied-back triggers and of jungle-clearing operations with Cooey 82s in the wilds of South Viet-Nam.
MUCH better to try to be nice, grit our teeth, look to a better day and all that.
If only there were not quite so MANY!!!!!
And mine is those that have no clue of the difference between a clip and a magazine
or worse still- calling a charger a clip or a charger clip!Quote:
Originally Posted by TDH
Wow! You guys are tough! Ya gonna jump on a new member for misusing such terms?
Come on..... we're gonna have clueless folks signing in from time to time. You can jump their case or you can cut them some slack and "gently" educate them. They've probably got the guns you're so sensitive about and there's a chance that you don't.
Welcome them into the clan and you shall be rewarded.........
Rant over.........
My pet peeve aired.......
Well I was getting a giggle out of the thread so far.. Lighten up phil441, if you think any of the posters here would jump on newbies for these "heinous crimes", then you have missed the whole point of milsurps.com.Quote:
Originally Posted by phil441
And I think "clueless" wouldn't be a politically correct term. Maybe you should say something like "milsurp undernourished" or "surplus challenged"... anyone got another suggestion for it?
How about "new recruits with educational potential"?
After all, they have shown enough gumption to find and join this forum!
Patrick
Hey Smellie see if you can Fathom this one There is a dealer in Town who pronounces Moisin instead of Mosin, insists that his way is the correct pronunciation, even when I showed him he was wrong. Now for the kicker He doesn't like Russian Rifles, and here again insists they are Junk BUUUUT He sells them Now is that love of money, or just plain
Hypocracy Last year my wife bought me the Russian Pile cap with the Red Army symbol in front I walked into the store wearing it I thought he was going to throw me out bodily:lol:
Hmmmmmmm...... some people!
I spell it "Moisin" myself because that is the way I learned to spell it, long time ago. The Russian language has undergone several purges of excess letters in the last century-and-a-bit and they are now getting it down to a manageable number of symbols which is something that you couldn't say a century ago. Hard part is that many of the thrown-out symbols still exist in Ukrainian and White Russian and a few other of the Slavic languages. I got into the habit of pronouncing it "Moisin" also, likely because of a most insistent Ukrainan friend who got right hot under the collar when I pronounced HIS name incorrectly. It all had to do with one of those letters that got chucked out of the Russian alphabet: I think at one time they had 5 different forms of the letter 'i'. This can be most confusing to a small mind such as mine.
Nice thing is that if you want to talk about a FINE rifle, you only need a single syllable: either "Lee" or "Ross" will do the job nicely. Two-syllable rifles tend to be of lower practicality ("Mau-ser", "Mo-sin" are good examples here) and three-syllable rifles are definitely strange, all of them ("Mann-li-cher" and Schmitt-Ru-bin" come to mind). The single saving fact which protects the two-syllable Ga-rand is that John Cantius Ga-rand was born in Ca-na-da (which has THREE syllables, likely accounting for some of our definitely-strange governments). (You will note carefully that we are avoiding use of that OTHER three-syllable word, "En-fi-eld", which is a worldwide synonym for "finest possible design"!)
But the old MN rifles, whether original 91s or 91/30s, really ARE junk, friend, but they are junk which will WORK at 50 below zero.... and there is absolutely NOTHING which can be said against THAT. That they have a strange cachet of their own kind of "Class", not to mention that they can be made frighteningly accurate, just puts them in a class all of their own.
I rather like them, but you didn't hear me say that!
.
BTW, when I was in university, a friend had one of those hats and I had a 1943 Canadian Army greatcoat with the regimental markings removed. Friend Stosho Yaskiw just HAD to borrow it for a few days, adorned it with homemade Red Army insignia and went home (to the heavily-Ukrainian Russell district) for the weekend dressed like Tovarich Kommissar. He very nearly gave his grandfather a heart attack, but his father saw the joke, thankfully. Fun!
Another truly pet peeve is the fact that the little side block, against the forum members name doesn't name the Country in which he's based. It's not as though 'Desperate Dan' could be identified too easily if the word CANADA or AUSTRALIA or even the Isle of Wight was written in the block. It's even MORE frustrating when that ask something like, '.....where can I get a set of BA taps from.....' I mean, the world is a big place! And even MORE worse (or badder as my son would say.....) is when someone asks for something and you've got millions of them, and offer to send one....... to where? Even badder still, when the ask for values. In England it might be zilch but in Tasmania, hundreds.........
Don't get me going on this as a regular forum contributor and sender of jiffy bags! My wife says that it just gets worse (or worser.....) as you get older
How about those that deliberately call a Remington a "Remmy" or a Winchester a "Winnie". That just sounds too sweet.
I agree completely with that one Johnny!
I sometimes wonder if it's used more on boards to be cute, or they think people who are really familiar with these old guns actually use cutesy shortened terms such as that, and it makes them seem familiar with these guns. (?)
(Honestly, it does make my skin crawl when I see people write those terms, and nothing gets to me much - Hell, I even get along will Bill H!) :lol:
Most real collectors and experts I've been around respect and honor these guns and will use a full correct name and model when talking about them that's even more detailed or correct than most might use.
Can you imagine setting up for 0ne of our shows in Dallas and asking one of our real life crusty old buddies such as Don W to show you his 'Winnie' - :yikes:
(God, that's a mental image I didn't need!)
Hope the moderators don't get me for that one! ;)
Honestly, it really does 'irk' me to no end when I see people write those cutesy names on these forums. JMO.
~ Harlan
There was a fellow in Melita, Manitoba, called Fred Jensen, who built some of the most accurate rifles ever put together in Canada. That there aren't more of his rifles around is down, mostly, to the fact that almost NOBODY could get along with Fred. He would yell and scream at people for things that you or I would regard as harmless foibles. That he sold any guns at all was due to the fact that nobody could build a rifle which could out-shoot his. I have seen called 2-shot groups from a Fred Jensen 7mm Remington Magnum (Sako L-61 action, Douglas Supreme barrel fitted and chambered by Fred, stock started off as Bishop, if I recall correctly, laminated thin maple and walnut but was fitted, bedded and finished by the late Gavin Tait) that I had to borrow a quarter from a friend, just to measure: point-nine inch at 598 yards by the surveyor`s chain. Fred regarded this as NORMAL performance for that round! He shot Africa with the 7mm Rem a year before the Remington factory team and he was the first to hunt Afrca with the .458 Winchester. When he passed away a few years ago at a mere 96-and-a-bit, his trophy room, containing everything from Elephant to MOUSE, became part of the local Museum.
If Fred had heard these clowns talk about their Winnies and Remmies, (and likely Tikkies and Mousies and Savvies as well) they would have been thrown bodily out of his shop, their money following by air express and they would NEVER have been allowed back in the door, or even on his property.
But that was Fred. Me, I just laugh at the sheer idiocy of it all.
.
cafdfw... yours and Johnny P's posts made me recall a fellow who is god at another Enfield forum board- he refers to Ian Skennerton as "Skenny" and infers he is in constant contact with him on all issues regarding Lee Enfields. Now that Ian has joined the Advisory Panel team here, I'll have to ask him if they are really mates... :lol::lol::lol:
You guys kill me!!:p We just had a good natured joust over on another forum dealing with the question, "What is the Crown Jewel of Mo(i)sin Nagants?" or something to that effect. One fellow posted that he wished that topic would go away forever, as he wasn't interested in what he couldn't have anyway. I guess we need to step back once in a while and see if we can determine if we might be making sense or not. I gave a oil rigger guy a ride home one time. He was talking about his job, using all the handy-dandy terms that these guys use. I had no clue as to what he was talking about. I did a stellar job, though, of making like I was following right along.:thup:
smellie, your sense of humor reigns supreme!!:super:
The one that irritates me is referring to an SMLE as a "smellie". I learnt to shoot as a CCF cadet half a century ago. Believe me, we adolescents had jokey nicknames for everybody and everything. But I never heard the SMLE referred to as a "smellie" until I read it on Internet forums in the last few years. Until someone produces documentary evidence from the past, I am sceptical that the average soldier would use such a denigratory term for the weapon upon which his life might depend. Of course, as Peter Laidler would say, I may be wrong.
As has been pointed out, some people seem to think that if they use these terms, they are establishing their insider credentials. For me, it is rather the reverse.
Patrick
@Patrick. Sounds like we learned just about the same time, but the term was current around here with the long-range guys, ALL of whom were WW2 veterans. They generally showed up with a mixture of rifles, anyway, Number 4s and SMLEs, Number 4 for close-range shooting, but the SMLEs came out at 800 and over.
One thing: if you confused the rifles in the Militia and called a Number 4 a "Smellie", you got a Severe Talking-to from a Sergeant who had enough ribbons on his chest to wrap a Christmas gift.... and if you did it a SECOND time, you were sure for 2 weeks' defaulters.
I picked it as a screen name because what I thought were all the good ones were taken and I wanted something that I could remember.... and it was distinctive and just a little irreverent, so I grabbed it. I don't think the modern guys have twigged to it yet, either, so that's nice in a way.
One thing I DID notice is that NO veteran of the Great War (of my acquaintance, at least) used the term: it was always "Short Lee-Enfield" or "Ross Rifle", NEVER a nickname. So we are both right.... I think, sort of, anyway, perhaps.....
.
Thanks for your comments smellie. That seems to confirm my suspicion that the nicknaming was not usual in wartime, when it was all deadly serious, but has in fact has grown up in recent years (decades) with the rifles being more and more regarded as "boys' toys". Not that it's a matter of world-shattering importance, but I would be curious to see if anyone can produce an early written reference to the use of the term.
Patrick
Hey I know let's call a National Postal Meter carbine a POSTIE! Or a Smith Corona a SMITHY and a Standard Products carbine a STANDY. Gee this is fun!!!!!
GARY and RANDY?
I have heard the old L1A1 SLR referred to elsewhere, especially in civilian circles as a SLUR but never heard it called that in the UK, NZ or Australia military. It was always simply the SLR. however, the trusty old FN MAG/L7/GPMG was referred to as the GIMPY but you dont hear that now either. It's proved itself too often and for too long now, that everyone, from the lowest to the highest refer to it in revered terms at 'THE GENERAL' And deservedly so............, and long may it reign
Or ignorant b*stards who don´tQuote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Oh, lordy!
I took a whack at this cutsie practice of handing out sweet names on another forum, mentioning that Mousies and older Tikkies, Winnies and Sakkies all had long-claw extractors, whereas Savvies and Remmies have not..... whereas the Lee-Enfield Rifle doesn't break down, so it doesn't matter that much.
The next six guys who posted flamed me and some of them got downright crude, rude and vulgar about it.
Just no sense of ha-ha, some folks.
I ignored them, just stayed home and played with my Lugies and Webbies and my new Mousie (got another Kar. 71).
.
Congrats! Think of me as being green with "jeallie"! Will you actually shoot it? I would like to hear how it performs.Quote:
Originally Posted by smellie
Patrick
Oh, of course. I bought it ($60 at auction) because I needed the rear sight as a pattern for my original Kar. 71, so I can make a rear sight for it. Bore is okay but not as good as my original (which was a $3 rifle back when I was in school; it had spent a number of years in a chicken-coop, so zero finish. Stock was cut, too.) Neither is what you would call collector-grade, of course. Between them, I could use 1 buttplate, 2 nosecaps, 2 stocks and a few other bits. They are survivors and so must be respected as such.
They show up here at gun shows and country auctionsat prices from $60 or so, up to about $1100. The $1100 ones are REALLY nice, all matching, never cut, decent finish. I have a friend who deals in really good ones, but I can't afford them, so I go for the cast-offs, which are just as much fun and just as much history.
I shot my original until CIL stopped making shells, recently have got out my old brass and got a set of dies, waiting for a mould. Right now, looking for more brass. Should have them both barking next Summer.
Especially cut-down, these are fun rifles. When cut, they look like a regular single-shot .22, just a bit beefier. It's when you drop in that HUGE cartridge and touch it off that everybody else on the range really looks at you. But it's fun.
When I grow up, I'm gonna get a ticket to Tabora and join the Kaiserliche Schutztruppe, then we're gonna invade Mozambique again! Only problem is that this new map doesn't show it! Must be defective.
Lota funs!
Funny, that. The rest here get their name or designation, the Mag58 gets "the Gun" or just "Gun" almost as if everything else isn't. I wondered if it had more to do with "Cartridge, respect for the" :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
You're right there Son about 'the gun'. It's the one gun that I always gives me a warm feeling whenever I fire it. The hotter it gets and the more rounds that pour down the barrel, the longer the bursts, the more it likes it. My little boy fired a whole belt, virtually non stop when he was quite young and didn't stop smiling for a week afterwards.
Hey Brian (of BDL fame, what about a pic of your L7A2 going full tilt to put a smile on our faces...........)
Call me sloppy but while I'm a great fan and admirer of the Bren, if I had to choose, I'd have to say '.....give me The General'
Shame on you Peter, I hope the Warminster Brens arn't listening or they will go on STRIKE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Got a dozen or so OHF guns to certify in a fortnite.... can't wait! A full day of "shake, rattle and roll"Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
It would certainly be an ignorant b*stard that called this one a P.08.Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/ezkevd-1.jpg
I believe that's your American Eagle...
I pretty much hate anybody who spends 2200 bucks on some polished turd m16 but looks at you funny if you refer to it as a black rifle. and when they presume to lecture me on why it aint an m4.......I wanna start filing the tips flat on my M2 ball ammo