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Lasy year I purchased my 10 case limit of CMP greek HXP I purchased 5 cans of the ammo loaded in clips/bandoliers----they where sold out of the 240rnd cans. I have 3 cans of 1972 dated ammo 180 rounds into these 3 cans every single clip fails to eject. I have to pull the trigger group to get them out.
I have zero issues with other clips and so far no clip problems with the 69 dated HXP
Any one else ?
I did use a few to make a 2 shot and a 5 shot clip. but they still fail to eject.
Change out the Clip Latch Spring
or try some Clips that did eject The Greeks loved to over parkerize there Clips
That is a fact! I had problems with a CMP Special. Worked fine with older ones but between the new park on the rifle and the thick park on the HXP I had the same issue. After it was broken in, maybe 250 rounds, I have zero issues. Ive never had a problem with my broken in, "as issued" Garands.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballbags
The clip specs are slightly different with Greek mfg. clips, than USGI clips. Older HXP is usually found with USGI clips, 1970s' ammo is usually on Greek clips. That, and thick parkerizing are the problem, IMO. I generally discard Greek clips at the range.
Take a look here..........
TM 9-1275, MALFUNCTIONS & CORRECTIONS
And FYI (other complaints about HXP)......
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...grooveM2-1.jpg
Note the extractor groove (Pics of HXPs with different production dates). Humm...........now, compare later production HXP (like the round on the right) with a USGI produced M2 round.
Find something interesting?
Yup........the extractor groove on US produced M2 is like the round on the left. (FYI, US produced Nato 7.62 mm ammo has an extractor groove like the round on the right.)
So anyway, could it be........that the combinations of foreign made clips and ammo w/ different extractor grooves be a problem for some M1s?
Humm, anyway.........it is also frequently mentioned on the CMP Forum that JMO (Julius Maurer, Oberstein, Germany) marked clips are "a problem" (as well as some other European produced clips).
Not to mention.......heavy parkerizing.
Hint: Many just say to use USGI manufactured clips (and/or Canadian clips) with ammo (with whatever size extractor groove) for trouble free operation.
Aloha, Mark
PS.....changing springs that are over 50 years old wouldn't hurt either.
HXP loaded into HXP clips has generally caused me more problems than USGI ammo in USGI clips. The same problems are not there with HXP loaded into USGI clips. I've read the problems with the Greek clips are the result of slight variations in the tooling in Greek machinery, and over parkerization. Early HXP cans have most clips USGI, and work quite well in my rifles-even with the heavy park finish.
Charlie
sorry double post
Aloha, Mark
i tossed some of the Greek clips from 1972 problem batch in the case tumbler to get rid of a bit of the roughness on them, Test run sunday
I purchased 3 cases of the Greek HXP ammo from the CMP a couple of years ago. The price made it a good value then, ($381.00 delivered for 3 cases 1,440 rounds). I don't have any Garands, but I do own and shoot many .30-06 caliber rifles and I thought it would make great practice and plinking ammo. The stuff averaged out to be only $5.29 a box of 20, and I can't buy .30-06 brass for that price. I handload extensively and it would leave me with a good amount of once fired brass when I shot it all up.
With that said I'm very disappointed in this ammunition. No, not enough to sell it, but certainly enough to not invest in anymore of it. Especially now that they have jacked up the price on it to over double! ($648.00 for the same amount not including delivery). That comes to over $9.00 a box of 20 for 40+ year old surplus, foreign made ammo. Hardly a bargain.
In shooting this stuff in several of my bolt actions I'm experiencing hard bolt lift, and very poor accuracy. I understand this is not match grade ammunition, but with that said it should at least deliver accuracy on par with the cheaper commercial stuff. It does not. Aside from plinking metal gongs at my club range, it is pretty much useless. There are several members of my gun club who also bought this stuff to shoot in their Garands, and most all of them have experienced issues with it of one kind or another. Everything from FTE's to bent op rods. As I mentioned the only reason I bought it was because of the price. Now even that attraction has disappeared because they have jacked it up to the point it has now become more of an expensive headache, than a bargain. Bill T.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6M2Ball1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6M2Ball2-1.jpg
Sorry to hear about problems with the HXP ammo you have experienced. Our club here in the Midwest has purchased and issued many thousands of rounds without any problems of consequence. None older the 1971 and all has been in clips. Only a little corrosion here and there. Cleaned it up with steel wool and it worked as it should.
well tumbling them seemed to help out of the 5 known clips with problems 4 worked fine after tumbling for 15min ?
I may be mistaken billt but I thought I read somewhere that the specs for mil 30-06 .30cal ball ammo was something in the range of 4moa@200yards ? I can hold a decent fist size group with my CMP service grade and greek ammo @ 100yards
Still at 50ish cents per round where are you going to find anything remotely close in price thats good for M1 garands ? Cheapest you can get 30-06 in any flavor I have found is a touch over 1.00 per round?
Even the M1 garand ammo looaded by hornady and federal runs about 23.50 on the cheap side for 20 rounds
All of it I have fired has been fine. I've shot some very nice groups with the stuff. I agree it is no longer economically viable RE Cost, though.
One guy at our club blew up a Springfield Armory (Inc.) "D-Day Commemorative" cast receiver gun with it... not to say it could not be fixed; receiver still intact. Incidentally this guy was kind of a beginner at position shooting and is now shooting CMP short course scores in the high 270's... he didn't let it get to him! AND... he started shooting position high power in his late 60's!
Handloading for a Garand, or any other rifle for that matter is not a difficult proposition. ANY Garand ammo currently on the market is horribly overpriced, including what the CMP is currently offering. Most modern loading manuals list specific loads for the M1 Garand, Springfield M1-A, and the AR-15. The only difference is medium burning powders and bullet weights are used because of the gas systems in these rifles. Paying $1.00 per round for ammo for these guns is simply foolish. Especially in today's economy. The CMP needs to reevaluate their price structure. They have simply overpriced this stuff beyond what it is worth. And for what it's worth, I would be happy if my Greek CMP ammo delivered 2 MOA accuracy. It does not. Not in a Browning A-Bolt, Ruger Stainless Model 77, Weatherby Vanguard, or a Remington 7400. All of these guns have shot 1 MOA or less with other ammunition. Bill T.
---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------
Everything that I have experienced with this ammunition has shown it is loaded excessively HOT! Bill T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff Murphey
I am also calling into question under what conditions, both temperature and humidity, on how this ammunition was stored over the last 40+ years. There is simply too much conflicting information on how it is performing. I have commercial ammunition I purchased back in the early 70's, and it exhibits none of the corrosive symptoms on the brass the CMP stuff does. And none of it was stored in sealed containers. Bill T.
The most likely explanation I've heard is that the Greek ammo was boxed up, then boxes with damp glue were sealed up --- along with the moisture from the glue - in spam cans. Some of the boxed ammo in USGI type cans (not Spam cans) I received was clearly stored out in the open, for some period, judging by fading paint and rust on the cans.
I might point out that some venues REQUIRE use of GI or HXP ammo in M-1s, both because of trying to be authentic but more so because the powers that be are afraid of slam fires or doubles they believe will be caused by sensitive primers in the mysterious M-1 rifle. Mostly this is in clubs like mine dominated by bolt action bench rest shooters. In our club you CANNOT use handloads in an M-1 match. You MAY use them for practice but only with 5 shot clips. Go figure.
Im new to reloading, with my current cost of componants run my reloads @ .53 ea. I have only shot 1000 rounds of the HXP. Yet to see any signs of over preasure. One thing I did notice is the different types of powder.
I pulled down a 1963 HXP which had small ball powder....1969 had little stick or extruded powder??
HXP vs LC I do notice a slight change in recoil. there is a big difference in POI the LC will shoot lower with the same sight settings as the HXP. I notice this also from lot to lot changes too.
All in all I dont have a argument over the price of the CMP ammo as it is still the cheapest 30-06 fun you can have.
for reloaders, as billt mentioned you cant buy 20 rounds of brass for 5.00. so if you look at that way you get 7.6 boxes of 20 for 5.00 worth of brass 38 bucks off the price, plus you can sell the bandoleers and clips if you have a surplus when you purchase the ammo loaded on clips.
Yes the ammo has gone up, and a lot even since I ordered it last year and could only buy 10 cases. Maybe if no one would buy it the price may drop. I still order a can or 2 every now and then. I do not want to be the guy to say, I should have.
Griff Murphey hit on this one. I have only had one lot with some WTF corrosion with the greek ammo. All came in the carboard boxes and all where the end cartridges at the glued flap...I had one box that had some light tarnish across the rim and primers. Other than that its what we have?
Another possibility I'm looking into is demilling this stuff, either tossing the powder completely, or else down loading it slightly, then reseating the bullet and recrimp it. From everything I've seen with this ammo that I personally have experienced, and have ascertained from others, is it is simply loaded too hot.
The problem with demilling and reloading it to a bit lower pressure is it involves a lot of work, and there is no way to do it efficiently. The "hammer" type tools are dangerous as far as I'm concerned, and the collet type bullet pullers mar the hell out of the bullet. Not to mention both are slow to accomplish. The collet type pullers aren't as messy, but tightening and loosening the collet tool 1,400+ times would rank right up there with going to an all night dentist.
If this stuff was improperly stored, and I believe a lot of it was, it could be into somewhat dangerous pressure levels. Without running some of it through a pressure test there is just no way of really knowing except for the obvious conditions it shows of high pressure such as the hard bolt lift I mentioned, along with very flattened primers and some cratering around the firing pin indentation. There is absolutely zero reason for this stuff to be blowing up guns, any gun. Cast receiver or otherwise. I think part of the problem here is many seem to think just because the CMP is the one selling this stuff, that in itself gives it "The Good Housekeeping Seal Of Approval", or some such. That is total nonsense. Just ask the guy who's gun let go shooting it. I can all but guarantee you if any of the major ammunition manufacturers had a lot of ammo that was exhibiting these issues, it would be recalled in a heartbeat. Bill T.
billt, good point about the preasure testing.......has it ever been done. Maybe hornady would test a few rounds to see ?