Extraction issues with M1 Carbine

In firing the NPM Carbine that I got from the CMP the last time, I encounted several extraction issues with three brands of ammo, including Remington Softpoint and Winchester and Privi Partisan ball. This is strange because I had previously fired several hudred rounss through the gun without this occurring.

It seems that the ejected case gets in the way of the bolt closing and feeding the next round. In none of the cases is the round still sticking to the extractor.

Here are some recreations that I set up, since I did not have a camera with me when I was shooting. In one situation the empty case actually was perpendicularly accross the ejection port as depicted in the first photo.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m1malf1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m1malf2-1.jpg

Any idea what might be causing this and how to correct it?

thanks

Most likely, either a busted extractor lip or a broken ejector spring.

As I see it, and I am not an expert, there are a few possibilities. I will list my thoughts in the order of ease in checking, not in what I consider most likely
1. Dirty chamber. Clean the chamber carefully with a brass brush. I've used 9 mm pistol brushes.
2. Ejector spring gummed or broken. Disassemble bolt check springs, clean and re assemble. You need a bolt dis-assembly tool. A new set of springs is also a good idea. I replace springs as a matter of course.
3. Weak recoil spring. I replace springs.
4. Not enough power from gas piston. Remove, clean, clean gas port, replace, stake nut. Need a gas nut tool. Unusual for the gas system to need work, but can happen.

I just looked one over for a friend of a friend. It was hit or miss feeding and extracting.
Found that the Extractor Plunger was broken off at the stem. It was still in place, but without taking it apart would have never known until it threw the Extractor.
BTW the spring behind his broken Plunger was caked in soot. I dug the grime out with a drill bit in hand.

The gas chambers do need to be maintained, but I'd do so as a last resort.
When you take the bolt apart, I'd replace the Ejector and spring to a type III (like pictured below). Would also replace the Extractor ( look for any burrs on the lip that engages the casing rim, it can be lightly filed). The Plunger and Spring, along with the Op slide spring. Use USGI parts. I'm pretty sure E-gun parts has them........ I have bolt tools. But when ordering from the list below, I usually buy a few of each. Sounds like you like to empty brass. I'd consider having a complete extra bolt on hand. Just make sure it guages (Head space) correctly to your carbine. Most carbine shooters like having a back up bolt while at the range.

Bolt Tool,
Bolt Tool, New Manufacture


Ejector/Spring,
Ejector & Spring Assembly, NI


Extractor,
Extractor


Plunger and Spring,
Extractor Spring Plunger

Extractor Spring


Op Slide Spring,
Operating Slide Spring


E Gun Parts Carbine parts,
Numrich Gun Parts Corp. - The World's Largest Supplier of Firearms Parts and Accessories


Good Luck,
Charlie-painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC06034-1.jpg

Wow, thanks guys!

Great links, Painter.

I have heard that I would be better off buying the real GI bolt disassembly tool as it works better than the repro. Any thoughts on this?

Below is a link to the USGI tool:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...t+tool&catid=0

Both work more or less the same.
Both can break, at the split tail end of the pawl.
I'd save the extra $ and buy commercial.

Charlie-painter777

Did you strip down the Carbine, clean, inspect and lube before trying to use it? This would include bolt maintenance. If not, the failures would be expected.

Boy, parts prices are sure going up. $60 for a bolt tool.

I must be getting old. These bolt tools were $35 for a package of two, now that was 15 years ago though.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...packs004-1.jpg

Everything Charlie said plus, if the brass in your photos were fired in your chamber then you need to have the chamber walls touched. Note the speckling appearance of the brass. This is caused by rough chamber walls. Have a good Gunsmith put a light polish on your chamber to nock the tops off the rough surface.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Did you strip down the Carbine, clean, inspect and lube before trying to use it? This would include bolt maintenance. If not, the failures would be expected.

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I did not take the bolt apart since I did not have the tool. I did let it soak in some hoppes number 9 in an ultrasonic cleaner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBS

Everything Charlie said plus, if the brass in your photos were fired in your chamber then you need to have the chamber walls touched. Note the speckling appearance of the brass. This is caused by rough chamber walls. Have a good Gunsmith put a light polish on your chamber to nock the tops off the rough surface.

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Thanks for noticing that. I think that is a case that I had laying around from my other carbine which has not experienced extraction problems as of yet.

Can a regular gunsmith do this?

I had been thinking of having the feed ramps polished but have backed off since I was afraid removing the parkerising would hurt the value. I don't need these guns for home defense, as I have other guns that I employ in that capacity.

thanks

Hmmm...a rough chamber could make the brass stick and the extractor slip off. On the bolt, does the extractor move if you push hard on it? If it has full range of movement with a very strong spring tension and if the gripping edge looks good, it's probably okay. How about the ejector? Does it push all the way into the bolt with strong spring tension and snap out when you release it?

Swap the other bolt and try it.
Providing it head spaces ok.

Charlie-painter777

Jim,
Send me four of those bolt tools. I'll get $70.00 right out to you.
Roger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EdL

Thanks for noticing that. I think that is a case that I had laying around from my other carbine which has not experienced extraction problems as of yet.

Can a regular gunsmith do this?

I had been thinking of having the feed ramps polished but have backed off since I was afraid removing the parkerising would hurt the value. I don't need these guns for home defense, as I have other guns that I employ in that capacity.

thanks

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Yes a good Smith can do this. You just want the chamber wall dressed a bit. If after firing the brass looks like it is frosty and has the appearance that it was rolled across 80 grit sand paper,, well the case is telling you the chamber needs a polish. It can cause drag, lag, ejection problems also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bubba-7

Jim,
Send me four of those bolt tools. I'll get $70.00 right out to you.
Roger

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Roger,
I did buy 4 back then. Have used two (one sitting with a broken pawl) sold one to a lady to give her husband last year for a Christmas present, and one saving for when the second pawl breaks. Need to find some of those darn things.
Don't we have any machinists here that could make and heat treat some. Might be a market for them?
Jim

I always pick up any spare pawls I can find. They are nearly as rare as hens teeth. I only have 2 of them. They usually cost about 2/3 of the price of a complete tool.