1903 Springfield Rebuild Questions

Ladies and Gentlemen!
Short time lurker, new poster.:wave:
I have been impressed with the Expertise and Professional manner in which everyone here treats each other. Hence I have decided to post!
I recently acquired a 1903 Springfield that is due to be rebuilt. The barrel is pretty destroyed to answer that question!:D
I will post pics as I go along, but would like some input from the Experts here.:bow:
The Springfield in question is receiver #: 1203xxx. Which I believe puts it in the early 1920's. The barrel is dated: SA 8-30.
The stock is a Remington pinned (mid 1940's replacement?) with a smooth buttplate. The stock has no cracks, and no deep external cartouches or marks near the magwell/ floorplate or "pistol" grip area. I "think" I can make out a faint mark near the mag cut-off, but I may be tricking myself into seeing it! :madsmile:The end (forend) of the rifle has a mark that looks more like a "B" than a flaming bomb. The buttstock is marked: BY 32. Both are incised and white. Simple rack numbers.
What I plan to do, is this:
1. Replace the barrel with a period part (1903, prefer a SA or early HS barrel) to match the SA receiver. I look for guidance here. What would be a common barrel/ receiver combination?
2. Stock will be restored to 100% Remington. This will be until I upgrade to a real SA stock.
Questions as follows:
1. Correct buttplate type for a "pinned" Remington stock?
2. Would the stock parts be "milled" or stamped for a Remy of this era? I sometimes see ads for both types of barrel bands and buttplates.
3. What would be a correct SA stock for this rifle (with the above receiver SN)? Different sources tell me this was a 1903 or 1903A1?!?!?:confused: Is this a "scant stock" or "C" stock... or?
4. Is it "normal" for this Remington stock to be lacking in cartouches if it was a replacement, or has "time" worn the marks away?
5. What is the correct handguard. I have a "split" type (which is unmarked and also broken). I would like a match to the Remington stock.

My reference has been the book by Canfield, but I like to do research from all avenues.

I would like to make this rifle eventually correct as possible for a "rebuilt" service rifle.
Thanks for any and all help!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

Ladies and Gentlemen!
Short time lurker, new poster.:wave:
I have been impressed with the Expertise and Professional manner in which everyone here treats each other. Hence I have decided to post!
I recently acquired a 1903 Springfield that is due to be rebuilt. The barrel is pretty destroyed to answer that question!:D
I will post pics as I go along, but would like some input from the Experts here.:bow:
The Springfield in question is receiver #: 1203xxx. Which I believe puts it in the early 1920's. The barrel is dated: SA 8-30.
The stock is a Remington pinned (mid 1940's replacement?) with a smooth buttplate. The stock has no cracks, and no deep external cartouches or marks near the magwell/ floorplate or "pistol" grip area. I "think" I can make out a faint mark near the mag cut-off, but I may be tricking myself into seeing it! :madsmile:The end (forend) of the rifle has a mark that looks more like a "B" than a flaming bomb. The buttstock is marked: BY 32. Both are incised and white. Simple rack numbers.
What I plan to do, is this:
1. Replace the barrel with a period part (1903, prefer a SA or early HS barrel) to match the SA receiver. I look for guidance here. What would be a common barrel/ receiver combination?
2. Stock will be restored to 100% Remington. This will be until I upgrade to a real SA stock.
Questions as follows:
1. Correct buttplate type for a "pinned" Remington stock?
2. Would the stock parts be "milled" or stamped for a Remy of this era? I sometimes see ads for both types of barrel bands and buttplates.
3. What would be a correct SA stock for this rifle (with the above receiver SN)? Different sources tell me this was a 1903 or 1903A1?!?!?:confused: Is this a "scant stock" or "C" stock... or?
4. Is it "normal" for this Remington stock to be lacking in cartouches if it was a replacement, or has "time" worn the marks away?
5. What is the correct handguard. I have a "split" type (which is unmarked and also broken). I would like a match to the Remington stock.

My reference has been the book by Canfield, but I like to do research from all avenues.

I would like to make this rifle eventually correct as possible for a "rebuilt" service rifle.
Thanks for any and all help!:)

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(1) An SA 1920-dated barrel would match your rifle's serial number.

(1) Stamped buttplate.
(2) Stamped.
(3) A two-bolt Type S grasping groove stock.
(4) Remington made a few spare replacement stocks that are devoid of cartouches. Most Remington stocks have factory cartouches.
(5) A high-hump handguard having no fixturing slot in the barrel channel and a distinct 1" wide relief cut for the front metal clip.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

John,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I am going to attempt to upload some images, so here it goes!
First pic is the receiver and serial number:

Side view of the stock and receiver area:

As mentioned, I don't see alot of cartouches (externally) on the stock. When I took it apart, this is what I found:


The buttstock has some incised and white "rack numbers" on it:


The rear swivel doesn't have an "R" on it, for Remington. I don't know if this is natural!

The magwell and triggerguard:

I will post more later. I have cleaned up the stock a bit. I used an iron to steam off some of the dents, and then I degreased the wood. Several coats of tung oil, and the rifle looks better! :)

Thanks for the pictures.

You appear to have a CMP Greek rifle.

Hope this helps. Thanks again for the pictures.

J.B.

John,
Thanks for the kind words! I was wondering where this critter came from. However, I don't see any Greek marks. I seem to recall someone saying that they had a few small marks....
Anyway, I have attached a few more photos. I have begun to clean the Remy stock of the icky varnish and dirt.... I have been down the road before, so I used extreme care and came up with a nice stock...
I will post photos when I get them uploaded!

My identification was based on the dark oil-soaked appearance of the stock and what appears to be a drilled cross-pin in the trigger guard/magazine. Does the floorplate have a large or tiny "B" stamped on the outer surface? Please advise.

Thanks!

J.B.

John,
No go on the B, on the outside floorplate. However, I do have a "3" on the inside of the plate:


On the magwell/ trigger housing, I dont see any clear ID marks. I "think" I may see something that appears to be an "0" right next to the floorplate release.

It is rather small, and not clear. Sorry that I couldn't get a more clear photo. But should there be a 0 in this region?

Next question:
What is the correct buttplate for a Remington stock of this nature? I have a smooth buttplate (missing the door). Should it be smooth?


On to the stock!:p
I did some cleaning as mentioned. I don't believe in severe sanding, in hopes of finding marks...

What inspector marks should be on a Remy stock in this area? You can also see the cutoff has left indents in the cutout.:confused:

I see a boxed FJA in pic #4. This is correct for a pinned Remington and SC stock. Could you post a picture of the lower band spring cut out.

Kokomo,
What you see is a distinct possibility! It is severly faded... I have Bruce Canfields edition of 1989 as a reference... and what I am reading off of the 'net. I don't think he talks much about these Remy stocks. Only reference I saw was pg67/ 68.
As requested here are more photos of the stock/ furniture.
As requested, here is the lower band spring cut out.... there is an R on the spring:

Here is the end of the stock:



It looks to be another "3"?

Here is the swivel on the band. It is clearly marked with an R:


Ok, I was doing searches on the internet, and I came up with this tidbit... I look for guidance or clarification. The bayonet lug is stamped with an H on it. I read that it means that it was "hardened" for grenade launching... is this true?



Thanks everyone for patience on "my" project. As mentioned, I would like to restore the receiver/ barrel/ FCG to 1903 status, and the stock as a seperate Remy entity.

I am not sure if this is a Greek return or a put-together. Receiver looks like parkerizing over some pitting. I am not so sure I'd put much money/effort into this project. If you already have the parts, go for it. You will not be able to buy the parts and come out ahead on this project. Sometimes they are what they are. Good luck on this one.

Steve,
I won't disagree with anything you said.
I am a restorationist, and have brought back things farther... from the edge. My joy is the act of restoration or repair.
BTW, I don't know if someone attempted to park this thing, or spray paint it. There are no or little pits on the receiver. But it does have a blotchy look.
While cleaning I did find the following proof marks on the underside of the receiver:

I actually asked for the type of upperhandguard in an earlier post. This was due to the condition of the current one. It has a crack in it. I suppose I could repair it, but would rather replace due to the apparent low cost of this item.

It looks like silver spray paint to me in the first set of pics.

Kokomo,
You are probably correct. It is a weird surface that isn't parking... regardless, I am moving on with the project.

Thanks for the sage advice so far everyone!

I am actually excited by a recent find. BTW, hats off to "Bowhunter 1903" for providing a vintage barrel. My ruined barrel is dated 8-30. He was able to supply a barrel dated 4-30! The "new" barrel easily passes the "bullet test", and looks great! The rifling is so "sharp" it will cut your eye! :) I greased up the barrel, and spun it into the receiver a few turns for a few pics!
First photo is of the barrel loosely mounted to the receiver:


Next photo is of the front sight on the "new" barrel:



This is a view of the rear sight on the barrel:


Next photo is for the experts... I can't seem to get the shot right, but I have included it in tonights upload:

I tried to get less glare, and also used white out to get the markings more clear. I found these after turning off the barrel.
I think one marking on the face of the receiver says: J73 this is towards my finger nail. The second I believe is: D, which is towards my finger joint. Additional proof or heat codes?

As to the stock, I alluded to the "correct" one in my searches on Mr. Dads post on his CMP stock odyssey. I have attached the link for general amusement and knowledge. Since my receiver is a 1921, it probably could use the type "4 or 5". Mr. Dad noted on his post that the CMP stock he chose closely resembles a type 4. http://www.trfindley.com/origstmps/m1903guidea.jpg


Stay tuned to more exciting adventures here! :)

"J 73" is the receiver steel lot code.

I'm not sure what the "D" is.

Hope this helps. Thanks for posting the code.

J.B.

What Steve said is true, but if you are having fun refinishing the stock, and cleaning up the metal, then you are doing good.

It is all a learning process.

If the lower band spring cut is square on the far right side - it is Remington. A rounded cut is Smith Corona.

You have a perfect rifle for "fixin' up and ejamakashun". Do what you want with it.

Midmichigun,

If I remember correctly you were looking for a stock for your project.

There is a decent GG (grasping groove) stock up for auction in eBay. Look like it doesn't need a lot of work (just cleaning, steaming, and some oiling)

M1903 Springfield RIFLE STOCK, Ton of MARKINGS ? WWI ? - eBay (item 200539748776 end time Nov-11-10 17:49:57 PST)

D.

Mr. Dad,
Thanks for the input and link. That is a NICE stock! I will keep my eye on it. If the price is right, may come home. ;)

Sitrep:
Still saving up for a proper bolt for the rifle. When I get the bolt, then I will assemble the barrel to the receiver and do a headspace check!

Hey Midmichigun,

I did finish installing the CMP "S" Stock on my 1918 M1903. No problems with the fit of the action at all, I did inlet the hand guard for the clips. Some Tung oil and 0000 steel wool and it was done. :super:

Mr. Dad,
Sweet! I love it when plan comes together!
Now we a range report from you! :)

I REALLY love it when basket cases and "junk" are restored to their former glory! Hope my rifle turns out as well as yours!

Mr. Dad
Well, I didn't get the stock on Ebay.
Being a Newb to 1903's, I stopped my bidding short. Knowing that repro CMP stocks go for the $160.00 range, I was prepared to spend more. However, the auction ended at $335. Just as a point of reference... what should the stock have sold for? The seller claimed it was an original 1903 stock from WWI or so.

Hey Midmichigun,
I saw that! $335 was way too much money! :yikes: I would not have gone any higher that $200-225. :nono: You should really consider the CMP "S" stock, the comb can be reprofiled if you want. I don't know what you are really looking for in your weapon. Too me the markings and cartouches on a stock are great if I can get it at a great price :thup:, otherwise I walk away, they are not that important to me. Remember these are military weapons and not museum pieces, there is more history and a story to tell in the "as bought" weapon than in a overly restored "Museum wallhanger":D But if you are still looking there are two other stocks in eBay, one has some major repairs, and to me is not worth it.:nono: Here is the link for the other one.

US 1903 Springfield Straight Grip Finger Groove Stock - eBay (item 300492243850 end time Nov-18-10 19:53:23 PST)

You might also consider buying a low s/n M1903 with bubbaed metal and a good stock as a donor...... :cool:

I'm including a pic of the CMP "S" stock comb.

D.

Mr. D,
"Your cruelty gives it all away... you are the Dread Pirate Roberts"! LOL!
Ya found me another stock to bid on! Sweet!
Being a Newb, and on a budget, I think I stopped at $265. 8)
I am not looking for the wallhanger. Just a nice stock for the ol gal. I would prefer a "correct" one, probably as much as anyone else. But am thinking real hard on the CMP that you keep showing me! :) As has been pointed out, without the ORIGINAL barrel, it will always be a mixmaster (even with correct bolt, cutoff, trigger etc).

Ho there Midmichigun. Here be luck and a fair wind to you matey! :wave:

Have you tried contacting Rick the librarian on this forum? I think he had some GG stocks for sale (send him a PM or check the "For Sale" link/page of the forum).

Here are more links (just to make you eager to walk the plank).... :runaway:

Springfield 1903 WWII stock : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com
(I think overpriced)
1903 Springfield Scant Stock : Stocks at GunBroker.com
(I think overpriced)
1903 Springfield Stock S type straight grip : Stocks at GunBroker.com
(reasonable, seem to have a small crack on recoil lug, see pic 12)

Here is the Dupage link.
Available Rifle Stocks such as hand guards, trophy grips, low Wall stock, butt stock, sniper stock for sale.

I think both this stock and the CMP stock are made by Boyds. I bought my stock from CMP, even thou it cost a little more, because of their excellent reputation and customer service. :thup:
Fair winds and following seas,
D. :cheers:

Mr. Dad,
As requested, here is a SitRep of where we are at on the project!
Shout out to Rick for selling me a sweet stock for my rifle! It is awesome! This will replace the 1942 Remy that came with the rifle! It has the rebuilt cartouche for San Antonio Arsenal.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ildstamp-1.jpg
Of course there are the other marks!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ingproof-1.jpg
The barrel channel has a few marks also:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...oninside-1.jpg
Once again... a deep thanks to Rick for supplying the stock.:super:
I was posed the question by Dad regarding my rear sight that I acquired with the 1930's barrel:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...elsights-1.jpg
I acquired some parts for the cutoff, but am lacking the cutoff itself (type 2?).
I am saving up for a proper bolt (correct heat code).
Thanks to Mr. Dad regarding help sourcing some of my parts!:wave:

Yo Midmichigun,
Rick got you one awesome stock! :super:

I think you currently have the wrong binding and windage screws on the rear sight. Can't tell if the leaf is correct from the picture, but I'm betting it is a Remington (type 5).

But I'll let the experts pipe in.

PM sent

D. :cheers:

Gentlemen,
Here is an update... as you all probably remember, I have been hunting for gun parts for my Springfield 1903 (SN 1203552). I was able to find a nice barrel, from a member who was selling period parts.... Let me direct you to the "new" barrel for my project!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rreldate-1.jpg
The barrel date is 6-20. There is an "A" mark on it also.
The bore is nice overall, with good muzzle and throat erosion numbers.... There is "something" in the bore about 3 inches back from the muzzle... sorta a rough spot.... but not a show stopper.
Here are some numbers on the barrel itself...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...markings-1.jpg
Sorry for the "barney purple" shot... :p this is something with my lighting... not the actual finish of the rifle!:thup:
Here is a shot of receiver sight base..
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ightbase-1.jpg
I am still looking for the "correct" bolt (probably a J6).... and the correct rear sight...:D:help:
Now I did score a box O handguards, but have not fully inventoried them!

A shout out to Mr. Beard and Mr. Dad for helping me, and putting up with my constant pestering on "details" on this rifle... and especially the bolt!:bow:

Here are some photos of what I was able to snag. The story, is that the guy who owned it, made all 4 jumps with the 101 during WWII. He has since passed on, and this was "in a box". I can't confirm anything... but it was an interesting story!

But as they say, buy the gun... not the story....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster029-1.jpg
Somewhat decent photos of the overall bolt as "found".

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster027-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster020-1.jpg
Punch mark on opposite side of bolt handle root.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster017-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster024-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster021-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bolt006-1.jpg
Bolt face! Believe me, the firing pin is very round... the camera just makes it look off....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bolt005-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bolt008-1.jpg

Great pic of the heat treat number on the handle root.:cheers:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aster014-1.jpg

The bolt in the receiver...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bolt002-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bolt001-1.jpg

I am still on the hunt for the correct: handguards, the bolt cutoff, the front site.... and the rear sight.
Mr. Dad has been helping me chase these down, but I have had some financial and family setbacks for the past two months.... :banghead: so hopefully I can continue on the Quest shortly!:thup: