I have a Mk II butt stock on my Mk I Bren and would like to have the correct one.
Anyone have, or know of, email me.
Sarge
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I have a Mk II butt stock on my Mk I Bren and would like to have the correct one.
Anyone have, or know of, email me.
Sarge
I would use Gun Broker or similar as I've seen plenty on that site. I've been after a couple myself but there scarce now in the UK. I would expect in the UK for them to sell for £100 on Ebay as one sold a number of months back for £80, minus all metal work and it was a Lithgow made example.
Is the serial number of your Mk1 still visable or has it been cut through? If you have a part number still visable, and would like to know a little about its manufacture, let me know and I'll see what I can do, I have about 4000 numbers on a spread sheet so its reasonably good at working out production dates etc.
ATB, Chris.
My gun is an original functional piece.
Bren, Mk I - K 6208 1941, the maker is ? E D overlapped.
Sarge
Sarge, you Bren could still be highly original with a Mk2 butt because the mark/type simply relates to the item. So while it might be a Mk2 butt, it could still be fitted to a Mk1 gun. UNLESS THE EMER'S STATE OTHERWISE (or other nations equivalent instructions.....) Likewise, a set of Mk2 bipod legs or, say a magazine catch could be used right across the Bren range. We have pictorial, dated evidence that simplified Mk2 butts and bipods were (presumably) factory fitted and also regularly used on Mk1 guns, especially in the era of your gun.
Post war, when Mk1 guns were obsolescent, they were regularly updated with the lightweight Mk4 or 5 butts and Mk4 barrels from the Mk3 guns. Just my two pence worth.
And don't forget that if you fit a Mk1 butt, there's a lot of extra hardware that you need too!
True, but us brenspotter collector nerd types like our guns to be as 'correct' as possible. I went to not inconsiderable trouble with the last 3 Brens I bought to make sure they mostly had all the 'right' bits on them - and there's still further 'upgrades' I'd like to do. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Mark
3 Brens Peregrine............. sheeeeees, how many does a man need? Can I assume that there is a roaring trade in swopping the correct bits? Good on you. I can see Sarges point now
I have four in total:
1940 Enfield MkI
1943 Lithgow MkI(m)
1943 Monotype MkII
1943 Inglis MkII
I've done a little bit of swapping and have also got some items from the mighty KevG - mostly to improve the Enfield MkI. However, it's far better to find one with the correct important bits on it on the first place.
Although I believe 4 Brens is nowt compared to some of the contributors to this forum...
Mark
Thanks Sarge, your Bren dates to August '41, probably the first week. It would appear that Enfield were producing about 1000 guns a week at this time, not bad for a gun that is machine intensive in its manufature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge13
I think I need to invest in my own Armoury now as the Loft beams are bowing under the weight! How many is too many? 5, 10, 20, 50? Then throw in the other guns and Oh my God!!!
I have no idea how many is to many, But I know that I want a MK II which will mean I have 2 Brens. Might even consider yet another if the opportunity occurs? :yikes:
As far as other stuff goes there really is no such thing as "To Many!" For example I have 11 or 12 ? MP 40s and 5 or 6 MP 43/44/Stg 44s. Probably got 15 Garands and 60+ K98ks. And then there is the 65+ P.38s. In addition there is all the misc "Gunz."
I firmly adhere to the old adage of "The More the Merrier!" :madsmile:
Sarge
I'm not quite at the 60 mark yet but I do have 50 odd Brens, 5 Thompsons 28s and M1s, 5 Enfield rifles, 3 SLRs, 2 Lanchester, 4 STENs, 2 M2HBs, a .30 cal, 7 Enfield revolversand loads more odds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge13
Definatly, the more the merrier!!
At a minimum, here in Canada, a collector MUST have an Inglis mk1, a Mk1(M), and a MkII. Then any oddities that surface like the CH serialized Bren, and the transitional mk1 to mk1M DD Brens also have to be added to the collection. Now I read about these sterile Brens, so I will have to make space for one more.
One could also get duplicates of some of the marks for the different buttplates on the mk2, and for the different length of cones on the mk1. Also, the early mk1 machine work is nice to have as well. But adding these might be getting obsessive.
I never got into the foreign brens or the CZ guns....not common here and lacking the Cdn connection.
Those original Mk2 butt plates with the useless overhang that was supposed to act as a shoulder support were nothing but trouble for Armourers. The moment the gun was put down butt first, anything like close to heavily, the butt plate would chisel away a great sliver of the butt. In itself, that was easy to cure because we didn't have to patch that, just make good and level off the previously undercut section. What did make trouble was that as the butt plate moved, it took the chunk of wood away but in doing so, caused the top butt plate screw to elongate the screw hole, inevitably stripping the thread. This had to be drilled out, plugged and re-drilled............ The flat Mk3 butt plate without the overhang that just folded over the top of the butt solved the problem. Later on, we'd just fit all Brens with damaged butts with the Mk3 gun lightweight butt assemblies with the Mk5 triangular butt plate
When I was writing the Bren book, I spoke to a lady who as a young girl, was a wood machine setter for Tibbenhams at Ipswich, who made Mk2 Bren butts from imported Americal black walnut. She still had a memory that was as sharp as a knife. With the offcuts, they made SMLE bayonet grips. These were machined as a solid then cut to make pairs. They also made Mk5 Sten butts and pistol grips
Perhaps she made the one on my Monotype MkII? I noticed when I was stripping it down it has the F. Tibbenham dispersal code (S111) stamped on it. I'm glad to hear it's Walnut - it should clean up nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Mark
[QUOTE=stencollector;139922]At a minimum, here in Canada, a collector MUST have an Inglis mk1, a Mk1(M), and a MkII. Then any oddities that surface like the CH serialized Bren, and the transitional mk1 to mk1M DD Brens also have to be added to the collection. QUOTE]
What is a Mk1(M)?
Sarge
The simplified version of the MkI - the 'm' stands for 'modified'. From memory the following things were deleted / changed:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge13
- Fixed line sight dovetail removed
- Strengthening rib on right-hand side of receiver removed
- Butt handle deleted
- Butt-strap deleted
- Simplified machining to gas cylinder
- Lightening holes by breech removed
- Change from Mk1 barrel to Mk1* barrel with shorter flash-hider
- Change from Mk1 barrel locking nut to simpler Mk2 barrel locking nut (?)
And no doubt Britplumber or KevG will be along in a minute to point out the things I've missed. There are various types of 'intermediate' receiver between the original MkI and the fully developed MkI(m) as the changes were phased in over time. Again IIRC, Enfield did this from late 1940 onwards and Inglis and Lithgow from early / mid 1941.
Mark
PS. Only the Inglis guns were actually marked with the 'm' and unlike the Enfield and Lithgow guns, they didn't simplify the machining to the gas cylinder.
I think you have about covered it there Mark, there were some internal machine processes deleted too but theres no point in trying to describe them, it would take forever to actually describe them. I would add that the true Mk1 had a more intricatly (Spelling) machined bottom slide compared to the type fitted to the Mk1m. Also the Inglis Mk1m retained the fluted gas ports but it had a simplified gas shield but not as simple as the flat Enfield Mk1 gas shield. Inglis also produced a slightly simpler drum sight to, the hand wheel was made with out the little notches on the outside and just had knurling completly around instead.
Kev G will be along with some more bits soon.
[QUOTE=Sarge13;140398]heres my MKIm for your reference https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...24111283-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...11695260-1.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by stencollector
Hi all, I am looking for my bren for Butt Plate Mk.I, so if anyone can help, please, let me know. Thanks!
You forgot to add, the bipod had fixed feet!
The adjustable up & down facility was done away with.
Brackets for the latches on the side of the legs were omitted, along with axis pins & retention springs. Then the feet were brazed in place.
Thus cutting down on four componants in production on one leg alone!