Long Lee target sights - windage

Pardon what may seem like a stupid question, but my 1896 MLE Mk 1 (no star) is in original condition, predating Mk VII ammo, and has the offset foresight blade. I haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet, but I gather I can expect issues with getting shots on paper with the current sight configuration.

I'm wondering if a target sight with windage adjustment is an adequate way to deal with this. If so, suggestions as the most suitable options would be welcomed so I can start to keep an eye out. I've seen a couple of them pop up on the "e-" auction sight but don't want to invest if it's not going to address the problem.

Other solutions (not involving replacing the front sight)?

Thanks.

Hi

I found that my Long Lee shot very low with MkVII ammunition and it had me stumped for a while at the range. To get the shots consistently on the paper at 100m range, I had to have the rifle sights set for about 400 yards on the scale.

I have a BSA No.9 aperture sight that I bought on the auction site you mention, but haven't fitted it yet. I too thought that once set up, this would be the easy way to compensate for the different ammunition.

More info can be found here:

http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_sight...sories.htm#No9

Kind regards

Mike

RR, that foresight error probably led to Boer lives being spared in the early engagements of the ABW (LLE Mk I no star shot 5 ft to the right at 300 yds if I recall correctly), until the armourers were given replacement rear sights with an offset notch, which they fitted in the field. So your rear sight should similarly be offset. If it isn't, I could suggest one of two solutions: (a) an offset original rear sight or (b) a windage adjustable rear sight for the LLE (South African Army upgrade), similar to what was used in the CLLE conversion. PM me if interested.

As far as elevation is concerned, the Mark VII will give your rifle entirely different barrel harmonics than what you would get with Mark VI or Mark II Ball. Once you have found out just WHERE it wants to soot, though, you should have less trouble at normal ranges, as the Mark VII will shoot flatter. It's just getting the old girl on paper for the first time that gives you the headache.

Offset rear notch???? Wish I had thought of that! If the rifle shoots really low and off, make up a higher rear-sight leaf/notch out of heavy card stock, varnish it and tape it into place (Red Green would recommend a roll of Duct Tape, of course). You don't need anything permanent but you do need something to aim with. This might satisfy both needs.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the informative and useful replies.

To perhaps further illuminate, here are a couple of photos of the rear sight on my '96 MLE. Looks to me like I have an unaltered sight, yes?

I'm guessing that means I'm in the hunt for a replacement rear sight.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_9742-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_9743-1.jpg

Or you could fit one of these...

Okay...I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Or you could fit one of these...

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Do you really want to alter an original 1896 rifle? Why not just use a modified point of aim for the ammunition that you have available?

The last thing I want to do is permanently alter this rifle. I'm very specifically looking for options that can very easily be undone so I can return it to original spec. If none exist, I will resort to aiming off/Kentucky windage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

Do you really want to alter an original 1896 rifle? Why not just use a modified point of aim for the ammunition that you have available?

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first, the original (Nov/Dec 1899 Boer War) field conversion of the MLE I rear sight, in which the sight notch was moved to the left. Second, the S A Army sight upgrade with a fine notch and windage adjustment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RangeRover

Okay...I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

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Sorry not to have replied before. The windage adjustable leaf I showed was BSA's commercial use variant of the model made for the WD which had no 'knob', but had a spring that retained the leaf in whatever position it was set to. A pin was inserted in a hole to release tension on the spring and from there it was a matter of shoving it over as much or as little as you guessed was necessary.

The BSA variant took some of the guesswork out. IIRC, each number on the 'knob' or dial was 1 MOA of adjustment.

I have one of the WD pattern ones here and next time I come across it I'll take some photos.

I occasionally see a Southerland rear sight on ebay. They go for about $75.00 . They have a lateral adjustment and also an elevation adjustment capable of very fine adjustments using a knob on top of a long screw. They were standard sights on the Ross rifles I believe but are often seen on the long Lee Enfields too. I use a Parker's 9.G rear target sight on my long Lee to effectively use Mk VII ammunition in the old rifle. It's got a special aperture that has a fully adjustable diopter like a camera iris or a human eye. It also has another adjusting lever that selects any of several colored lenses to look through. Blue, green, yellow, grey tint and clear. Pretty neat and a good thing to have too because I'm so old now(only 56) and my darned eyes can use every advantage.

leftview3.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

leftview2.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

leftview8.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

LS10.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

LS7.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

LS5.jpg picture by Whitedog333 - Photobucket

Hi

I use BSA 9c target sights on both my 'Long Lees' (a 1902 MKVI sighted MKI and a CLLE). They don't permanently alter the rifle and they work on the basis of clicks, so they are easily sighted in. They are spot on. There is some evidence that some of the colonial units used these setups as early 'sniper' rifles at, for instance, Gallipoli.

Cheers

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gingercat

Hi

I found that my Long Lee shot very low with MkVII ammunition and it had me stumped for a while at the range. To get the shots consistently on the paper at 100m range, I had to have the rifle sights set for about 400 yards on the scale.

I have a BSA No.9 aperture sight that I bought on the auction site you mention, but haven't fitted it yet. I too thought that once set up, this would be the easy way to compensate for the different ammunition.

More info can be found here:

http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_sight...sories.htm#No9

Kind regards

Mike

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The site incorrectly says that the Parker SP 3 mounting plate requires drilling and tapping for the bottom, rear mounting screw in the butt socket. It certainly does not. That screw hole is already present on all butt sockets of Enfields. That was the idea behind that particular mounting plate, it could be readily attached to the Long Lee's. I can't figure out why they'd make that mistake. I sure wouldn't have mounted a Parker's 9.G sight on my rifle if I was required to drill and tap a mounting hole! Now, the SP 3 mounting plate DOES require the proper mounting SCREWS. Those I had made by Scott of Evans Obsolete Screws. The top screw is tightened all the way, seating the plate against the rifle, and the bottom screw is then turned in carefully until it securely holds the plate in position. At this point, the mounting plate under the bottom screw has a slight gap between the butt socket and that part of the plate. This insures that the attached rear sight isn't cocked off to one side at an angle. The mounting plate fits so well because the upper shoulder of the plate fits right into the opening left by the removal of the long range volley sight aperture. It's a good arrangement that holds the Parker sights securely.