Transit Chest

Hi,

I have a chance to buy a Bren transit chest for a fairly reasonable price. I haven't seen any pictures - the buyer has given me the following description:

"it's painted different shades of matt brown where it has been patch painted over the years.

on the hinge side stencilled in black it says:-

SPARES C1 - BE

512769 | 28 OF 32

QTY 2

on on end stencilled in white:-

WT 75 ??

on front stencilled in black:-

59 BN GARDE
CAS RUC QUOI.M.159
TOURNAI 30K

A500.00.86231
CHEST BREN"

Postwar French use? Is the brown paint likely to be British? All advice on what to look out for when buying a transit chest gratefully accepted.

Cheers,

Mark

More likely Belgian, and with 'Qnty 2' and 'Spares', it dosnt sound like a transit chest, could be a armourers spares chest.

All the chests we had were deep bronze green and all languished under the firing point of the 25 yard indoor range. together with the useless tripods. Maybe someone could put a photo up of a chest next to a tape measure. Mind you, I wish I'd written off a few dozen of the 'useless' but subsequently valuable fold-up lightweight tripods when they were still doing the rounds

It sound to me like a Chest, spare parts, Bren. Ask him if it's still full!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

it dosnt sound like a transit chest, could be a armourers spares chest.

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Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Do they look like the transit chest? It was advertised as one.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

together with the useless tripods!

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Off the top of my head I can only think of 1 or 2 WWII photos I've seen of them in use and perhaps that's why?

Having said that, you get a lot of bang for your buck if you're a collector - they're an item so overdesigned they could be German*.:lol: Many years ago I acquired a 1939 BSA MkI tripod and it's a great 'toy' to play with. Not that long ago I retrofitted it with some spring clips to store the MkI butt handle

Mark

* Actually Czech I believe.

I think they look identical apart from size, the metal hinges and hasps are the same. I think there is a drawing in Skenertons Bren SAIS.

I've just had a look. It states; "...wooden battalion spares boxes "A" and "B" contained tools and service spare parts. The "B" box is twice as high as the "A" box and the designations are usually stencilled on the green boxes in white paint".

There's a line drawing, but it doesn't look like the transit chest - more like a conventional tool box.

Mark

The original Czech Bren tripod was nicknamed 'the grasshopper' The current one was a UK design but in all probability, based on another type. Why o' why couldn't it have been based on the old US M1919 Browning tripod?

Mark,
The spares Batt box is NOTHING like the Bren transit chest. Either size wise, or internals. I have an example of the Batt spares box in my collection. But believe it or not, it is for the 7.62mm LMG series!
Two lift out trays inside.
It is identical to the wartime variant, but is semi gloss green with black stenciled writing. obviously new manufacture & dated with late postwar date. as almost 85 percent of LMG & Bren componants are similar. (After all, they ARE converted Brens!) I suppose it is logical that the Batt Armrs spares box design was copied!
The Bren chest is MUCH longer & heavier, & TOTALY different in internal fittings. IF you do come down this weekend, I can show you the two boxes in the flesh, so to speak!
Mike.

Just to illustrate the 'B' sized Battalion spares boxes C1/BE 6053 -

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../10/1bsb-1.jpg

Top -Australian 1943 dated Slazenger made.As illustrated in SAIS 5 and has 3 trays.

Middle - UK 7.62 L4A4 1990 dated made by REMPLOY -2 tray

Bottom - UK .303 2 tray

There are also 'commercial' boxes made from plywood by either Dince Hill or Manroy (can't remember off hand) and they are made to a trade pattern rather than DDE spec.
Pic below -

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mbatbox1-1.jpg

ATB Kevin

Well I think that pretty much clears it up. Thanks for the excellent pictures Kevin.:thup:

Cheers,
Mark

Insides when they were empty

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...boxtrays-1.jpg

They cost quite allot to fill though :(

UK filling list LoC B4515

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/loc201-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/loc202-1.jpg

ATB Kevin

well done Kevin, that's spot on! Mine is the upper one with black stenciling, in my collection.
Mike.

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

Mark,
The spares Batt box is NOTHING like the Bren transit chest. Either size wise, or internals. I have an example of the Batt spares box in my collection. But believe it or not, it is for the 7.62mm LMG series!
Two lift out trays inside.
It is identical to the wartime variant, but is semi gloss green with black stenciled writing. obviously new manufacture & dated with late postwar date. as almost 85 percent of LMG & Bren componants are similar. (After all, they ARE converted Brens!) I suppose it is logical that the Batt Armrs spares box design was copied!
The Bren chest is MUCH longer & heavier, & TOTALY different in internal fittings. IF you do come down this weekend, I can show you the two boxes in the flesh, so to speak!
Mike.

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Forgetting size I think they look similar in construction, I should've checked the pics I have as I thought they used the same fastners but I see they don't. The fastners shown in Kevs pics look identical to those found on some Bren gun boxs I've owned (I think I still have one) but they may be Aussie repaired boxes.

And the follow up to the bren transit chest is: Mark & I now know, they WILL fit transversly into the boot of a Ford Mondeo!...................:clap:

Do Tankie and Son, ever remember these boxes being used? I seem to remember one was in use as a general range box and another being used to keep all of our cleaning stuff, like boot polish and a couple of shoe/boot brushes and a tin of brasso etc etc plus some other odds and sods, like some compo rations for anyone that had to stay until some ungodly hour. But as for keeping Bren spares, well the spares just went up on the shelves in the spares cupboard like all the other stuff!

We also had another thing that you could screw legs to and a vice and all sorts of things that were stashed inside, that was meant to be an Armourers bench. Full of all sorts of bits and pieces but as we had an ancient old c.1945 Bedford QL lorry, 77YC16 then another RL, 16EL61 - I wonder where they are now - as the workshop for exercises, these box thinggies didn't get a lot of use it's fair to say!

Peter, As far as I was concerned when I served. These boxes were only held in unit stores away from normal issue items. You never saw them until an entire Regt was completey posted to another Location/ country. They were the responsibility of the Regt & did NOT come under the Armourers jurisdiction. Also, they would have been held at R.A.O.C Stores Depots such as Donnington for example. Where the weapons would have been done in Preservitive grease & held in one of the Large Hangers in the Small Arms Section. You MUST have seen the stilliages there, piled up with SLRS in the green plastic wrappers. All in Mint condition! The LMGs would have been stacked against a wall & roughly 10 high.(In boxes) You are also familiar with the conversion of these chests for the No:4 (T) Rifle, as you mention them in your EXCELLENT Book on the subject. I have not seen a converted box myself. As i believe they were mostly replaced Postwar with the MUCH lighter purpose made versions for that particular rifle. The Box, Battalion, Spares, was utilised by Us Armourers wherever we could lay our hands on them. Although designed for The Bren spares originaly. We used them for ANY smallarms spares we could get in them until the advent of the marvelous Thomas bins. Of which I have four & use regularly with my Armourers display at shows. The Bren Spares boxes were well made & very usefull for giving one to each Armourer for each Rifle Company he was responsible for on Excercises. That way, & selection of spares was kept in each box for every weapon held in that unit. You are familiar with what goes wrong generally with each type of weapon as your expirience grows with unit usage. So it was convinient to have one of these to chuck in the back of a Landrover to drive out to a particular company & do the repair where possible. The larger items were held by the Tiffy at the main Rear Echelon location & could be sent up by Rover if needed. Or, the weapon bought back, repair effected where poss & then returned to the Rifle company when completed. They have disapeared over the years as all sorts of metal & plastic types of tranist containers have become available. And spares storage only limited by the Genius & Imagination of the Armourer as to how he can put fitments & small boxes inside these! :thup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

And the follow up to the bren transit chest is: Mark & I now know, they WILL fit transversly into the boot of a Ford Mondeo!...................:clap:

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Perhaps Ford were keeping their options open for future defence contracts?;)

Many thanks for a nice smooth transaction. I've given the chest a gentle clean and now face the painful dilemma of which of my two MkI Brens - 1940 Enfield or 1943 Lithgow - gets to live in it?

Cheers,

Mark

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Originally Posted by peregrinvs

........and now face the painful dilemma of which of my two MkI Brens - 1940 Enfield or 1943 Lithgow - gets to live in it?

Cheers,

Mark

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Where the chest was made should sort that out ......if it's Canadian you will have to flip a coin :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Forgetting size I think they look similar in construction, I should've checked the pics I have as I thought they used the same fastners but I see they don't. The fastners shown in Kevs pics look identical to those found on some Bren gun boxs I've owned (I think I still have one) but they may be Aussie repaired boxes.

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Like this BP ?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/10/tc-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kev G

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/10/tc-1.jpg

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That's a late (60's-80's) Australian Bren chest, they put those new type of fittings on their chests along with the bumper bar on both sides of it.

No, BP's chest does NOT have the 'Bumper Bar' or those types of catches. It has the 'Normal' flat hasp types with rotating loops for a padlocks. It is stenciled Bren, Machine Gun, DP. So I am assuming it held one of the DP Brens that came over from Aus in the original HUGE batch a few years ago. Thier brens had Yellow Bipods to denote Drill Purpose. It is a normal issue chest but with the words added later onto a coat of shiney deep bronze geen. Wartime coloured chests would be painted either Brown or green in a Matt colour. Still fitted out inside with ALL the fittings for the C.E.S, IE: Spare barrel, mag, brushes Etc, Etc. & all the felt padding complete.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

Where the chest was made should sort that out ......if it's Canadian you will have to flip a coin :)

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An excellent question as I haven't spotted any obvious maker markings. Is there a way of knowing where it was made? It doesn't have the Australian 'bumper bar' and has simpler clasps (swivelling rings) than the one in your picture. The stencilling on the front is 'GUN MACHINE BREN DP'.

Cheers,
Mark

The pic was in reference to Brit plumbers (BP's) comments regarding the catches -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Forgetting size I think they look similar in construction, I should've checked the pics I have as I thought they used the same fastners but I see they don't. The fastners shown in Kevs pics look identical to those found on some Bren gun boxs I've owned (I think I still have one) but they may be Aussie repaired boxes.

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Mark,the maker and year should be stamped somewhere on the chest ,usually on the end.As the are sometimes well lagged in paint they might take some finding.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/brit1-1.jpg

This one a UK, Beautility Furniture Ltd made example.

ATB Kevin

The bumper bar was a particular Australian modification, front and rear (?) to protect the hasps and staples. This was part of the Australian EMEI's and was a unit level modification. I never saw hasps and staples like NZL1A1's photos on a Bren chest but these did appear on a similar chest used for the L2A1 auto rifle and our L2 came from Australia in a chest like this, complete with bumper bar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

the maker and year should be stamped somewhere on the chest ,usually on the end.As the are sometimes well lagged in paint they might take some finding

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Thanks for that. I shall conduct a more careful examination.

Also, can anyone point me at a nice idiot-proof picture or two of what goes where in the chest? I've found a detailed description by Peter Laidler on the 'Weapons Online' forum, but a picture is worth a million words.

Cheers,

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

the maker and year should be stamped somewhere on the chest ,usually on the end.As the are sometimes well lagged in paint they might take some finding

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I've had a look and I can't make out the maker name. However, I *think* I can see a partially obscured 1940 date. Brilliant if correct, but it seems a little too good to be true and so I shall reserve judgement until I have had a proper look in daylight.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

Like this BP ?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/10/tc-1.jpg

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Agh, yes thats the one, the fastners are similar to the Spares box, but not the same. I thought I may have had a few left but I must have sold them all, I've just got 2 of the normal fastner types left now. I seem to remember thinking it was a Aussie mod as 2 of them had the Liverpool NSW address on the side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

Where the chest was made should sort that out ......if it's Canadian you will have to flip a coin :)

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Lo and behold, it is Canadian - I've found a broadarrow in a C marking on it. I think it's the same as the one you posted a picture of:

transit box makers' names

Does anyone have any information on Canadian makers of Bren transit chests?

Cheers,
Mark