Basic question: while storing a Mauser, is there any harm in keeping the bolt in, compressing the spring? Or should the bolt be kept opened?
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Basic question: while storing a Mauser, is there any harm in keeping the bolt in, compressing the spring? Or should the bolt be kept opened?
Which spring, the mainspring or the extractor spring? Not that compression itself is harmful so much as cycles.
Generally, I just decock them whilst closing the bolt. If it's a straight bolt handled rifle, it may be stored w/ the bolt open or out, just to free up space.
Aurelius, if you look at the Mauser action, the majority of Mausers now around are with the 98 type action, which is cock-on-opening. As jmoore wrote "just decock them whilst closing the bolt" is the thing to do. But do not store them with the bolt open, as that would mean the spring is compressed quite considerably. It is generally considered bad engineering practice to do that, as the spring can develop a "set". Cock-on-closing types (e.g. Swedish Mausers) can be stored with the bolt open, to save space.
Even when decocked, the firing spring has a preload and is therefore under slight compression, but the evidence of my Mausers back to the M1871 is that neither you, your children or your grandchildren are likely to notice a loss of spring force because of that. Check back in another 140 years to see if I was right.;)
Patrick
Thank you for your replies. I am not sure what "decock while closing the bolt" means. This is an 1895 Chilean, if that helps. Can I store it with the bolt closed? That is the main question. Thanks again.
Pull the trigger while closing the bolt. If you store the bolt out of the gun expect the wife to toss the bolt. Keep the bolt in the gun.
Good advice, and it prevents that feeling of utter futility when you drive halfway across the county to a range, and unpack all your gear: mat, jacket, pads, cap, spotting scope, ammo, rifle - but no bolt!Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Patrick
Oh yeah, I can see that happening!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Been there! Just ONE stupid omission amogst, well more than a few...ammo, targets, spotting scope, rifle scope, staples, tape, etc. Oh, and have brought the WRONG rifle more than once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs505
So, yes, bolts now stay in the rifles.
So how does that work? Start the bolt and as it is closing, pull the trigger? What about dry firing in that case? I have a very rudimentary knowledge of rifles, just started collecting, so I appreciate your forbearance . . . thank you.
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Also, I would like to take it out and shoot it, but need advice on what steps I need to follow. For example, I got most of the cosmoline off, but does the action need to be completely dismantled and cleaned? What about a safety check by a gunsmith? What is the usual process, in other words?
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Are there Mauser clubs where I can meet and talk to someone about getting it out on the range to try the rifle out?
"A recent comprehensive survey of a century of Mauser bolt-action rifles..." i.e. a quick check in my cellar, shows that they can all can be worked like this.
Cock-on-closing types, which have an interlock to prevent the trigger from being depressed until the bolt is very nearly completely closed (e.g. Spanish 1893, Swedish) will make a sort of "snick-snack" as the lug enters the recess in the bolt body and the mechanism is released - if you look at the cocking piece you will see that the rifle has not been properly cocked, so there is not a real dry fire. Cock-on opening 98 types will not even do that - the cocking piece simply gradually slides forwards and releases the firing spring compression as the bolt handle goes round the curve.
So no problem at all.
If you are thinking of getting more Mausers, then I recommend that you buy Ball "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" and Olsen "Mauser Bolt Rifles", to get to know the enormous number of variations, and Kuhnhausen "Mauser Bolt Actions" to understand the mechanisms. Kuhnhausen explains slam fire and safety-off fire. A check for safety-off fire is one of the quickest ways to detect that a rifle has been FUBARed (an English term meaning "so bubba-ed that you can forget it").
Seriously, get the know-how before getting more rifles. You will find that the books pay for themselves.
Patrick
P.S. for Aurelius.
As you say you a beginner with Mausers, I think you deserve a little more explanation.
The know how in the books helps you to
1) Recognize that the "Original mint K98" you are being offered is, in fact, a mixmaster of restamped Yugo bits.
2) Recognize that the beat-up 1893 offered at a wallhanger price was in fact a rather rare Boer Mauser.
3) Reject the ones that look externally OK, but are in fact useless, or even dangerous, for shooting.
You did not say WHICH type of Mauser you purchased. I am cautious, even suspicious when you mention cosmoline, as this does not sound original. And sometimes sellers will smother the rifle in grease a) to make it look as if it came out of an arsenal b) to hide nasty stuff under the waterline. In any case, the gunge must be completely removed if you want to actually use the rifle, as the heat of firing will melt the grease so that it soaks right through the wood, ruining both finish and (eventually) the wood.
And finally, a check by Mauser experts is probably more reliable than a check by the typical gunsmith who has no specific knowledge of old service rifles. He will just pop in SAAMI headspaces gauges and tell you your rifle is unsafe, thus saving his butt, to use an expression common on your side of the pond. If you find a gunsmith who regularly handles 98-action hunting rifles, that would, of course, be different. So if there is something like a Mauser club in your area, get in touch!
Patrick
Sorry Aurelius - I can't find it mayself, so here are the instructions for making that vital "safety-off fire" check.
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Safety-off fire
Correct safety action:
Cock the rifle and set the safety to “ON”.
You feel the resistance from the lifting of the cocking piece as it is held by the safety. Press the trigger. It should have very little resistance. But it must have some resistance - from the trigger return spring. The rifle must not fire. Now let go of the trigger, and set the safety to “OFF”. Nothing should happen. You will merely see or feel the cocking piece move forwards until it is held by the sear once more. The safety is functioning as intended.
Incorrect safety action:
Re-cock the rifle and set the safety to “ON”.
If you do not feel that resistance from the lifting of the cocking piece as it is held by the safety, then the safety is not holding the cocking piece and you are forewarned as to what will happen next: Press the trigger. You find you have to apply full trigger pressure. There is a (maybe tiny) movement as the cocking piece slips past the sear and the trigger goes slack. Although not very obvious, the cocking piece is now being held by the safety, but the engagement ledge is now beyond the sear! Now set the safety to “OFF”. As the cocking piece was already past the sear, the bolt will slam forwards as soon as the safety is released, and fire the rifle. This is a dangerous condition known as “safety-off fire”. The same can happen if the sear lost engagement because of a broken or missing trigger spring.
It may be caused by severe wear – or by Bubba trying to correct a non-working safety. You may say, quite correctly, that you do not need the safety function in practice, as for target shooting it is forbidden to have the rifle loaded and cocked except when you are on the firing point and about to take a shot. And anyway, some types of service rifle do not have a safety to start off with. That is true, but for us, the important thing about the safety-off fire and impact fire conditions is that they are a “sure-fire” indication that the trigger and/or cocking piece have been Bubba-ed. Or, of course, the parts are so worn as to be useless.
I strongly advise against buying a rifle with an impact fire or safety-off fire condition, as correction of this fault will require replacement of the defective parts, and will quite possibly make the entire project uneconomic
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Hope this helps!
Patrick
Apologies Aurelius! You had already written that you have an 1895 Chilean. Personally, I blame it all on the short-term memory:confused:. Now what was I thinking about? Ah! I have it! As you have an 1895 Chilean Mauser you will also get the snick-snack effect when the trigger lug falls into the recess in the bolt body and then the partially cocked bolt is released.
Don't forget the books!
Patrick
Thank you Patrick. I know you took lots of time to write this, and I appreciate your efforts. This will give me what I need.
The rifle looks pretty good, actually, and the action seems rugged, smooth, and tight. Are you saying the Chilean is actually from the Boer War? I wonder if it was at Colenso, or Spion Kop? It would be thrilling to know . . . Anyway, that's exactly why I wanted a Mauser. I am more of a history buff. But being a normal guy, I also like the idea of firing it now that I hold it in my hands. I appreciate your advice about cleaning out all the cosmoline, and the advice on books. This should help me get from square A to square B.
Is the forum a good way to find a Mauser gunsmith in my area who might be interested in checking out the rifle for shooting? Thanks again for all your help. :cheers:
Aurelius wrote:"Are you saying the Chilean is actually from the Boer War?"
Sorry Aurelius, I confused you. The Boer Mauser was one I discovered myself, bought "on suspicion", and confirmed that it was indeed a Boer Mauser with the help of this forum. Which also answers your last question: yes, this forum is probably the best way to find a Mauser-savvy gunsmith in your area.
And my own very positive experience of forum know-how indicates that if you could post a picture of your rifle - one overall, one of the markings on the barrel ring, one of the markings on the side rail, and one of the bolt head (some had a flat bottom), then someone will be able to tell you fairly precisely what/when/were.
I hope your rifle passed the safety-off fire test!
Patrick