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Hey guys ,
I am looking for some info on my new 1945 Long Branch T. I am trying to find out what the production numbers where in 1945 and before. Also there are markings on the scope Bracket that I am not shure about. One is an iron cross looking stamp and the other is a circle and arrow that was put on by hand(I am guessing). I was also was trying to find out what the retail value is on the gun based off of past sales. And any other info you guys may have.
Thanks in advance!!
Scott
A few folks on this board own 1945 Long Branch "T's". If they could post their info it may answer your questions.
The 1945 LB T was a contract for the Uk and was mostly mounted with the No32 MK3 REL scope and was build on a block of Enfields in the 90L8xxx serial range.
Your scope bracket has the serial number milled off however it has the Canadian aceptance mark electropeniceled and the maltese cross for non standard part. It's unusual to see a Mk1 scope on a 1945 however there are lots of exceptions when it comes to these old snipers. Your forestock and sight should also have the maltese cross stamped on them....may also appear underneath the cheekpiece.
Do you have the scope case and transit chest ?
Nice rifle.
Ron
Hey Ron,
No I dont have the scope case and chest.....I bought the rifle in the UK....We are in the process of getting it here. I am very excited about getting it(finally). When you say non standard....what exactly does that mean. Is it not right for the gun?
Thanks for info!
Scott
Maltese cross signified "non standard" part ...meaning it was fitted to that rifle and not meant to be interchanged with another one. Som folks also call this this the Canadian or Long Branch sniper rifle symbol. Generally found on these rifles however it's been observed on on other weapons and items. Ron
Thanks Ron......That is quite helpful. Is there any place that I can find out the actual production numbers. Just how rare are the Long Branches? I am new to collecting and I am trying to soak up as much info as I can.........
thanks again
Scott
Longbranch built 905,731 No 4 rifles (of which 1,141 were 'sniper' No4 T's)
Only 1000 REL scopes were manufactured.
Source : "An Armourers Perspective .303 No4(T) Rifle"
Peter Laidler
Its a book well worth buying - ISBN 1 85367 144 4
Thanks Alan
Holy cow ....I own that book!! And I never thought to look in it. I did now.....what do you need to know? ha ha! I dont know what I was thinking not looking in there............I must of had Long Branch on the brain....fogging up my thoughts!
Thanks for the help clearing my mind!
Scott
Long Branch production is estimated to be @1588 total.
Milsurps - 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle
Your rifle is a 90L8, 1 of @350 all produced with the C.No32Mk3 scope.
Your REL No32MkI scope is "probably" off of a 1944 produced 71L block sniper.
Your mount "could be" original to the scope, but not the 90L8 rifle.
The right side cap markings are "in my opinion" additions, I've seen Long Branch scope rings marked, but not numbered.
Although I'm a K98k collector, I concur with Lee Enfield, as my wife owns 2 LB snipers. The one you see in this MKL entry below and another that's only 18 serial numbers away from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Longbranch Sniper Rifle
Serial # 90L8161 c/w matching Model No.32 Mk.3 R.E.L Canada Scope Serial # 174-C
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
The serial number on headhunter's in the first post shown is # 90L8299, so it's not far off either of hers. In both cases of her rifles, they have No.32 MKIII scopes and the mounts are serial number matched with no consecutive bracket numbers appearing on either either matched scope/bracket combo.
I suspect that this is an all correct 1945 Long Branch sniper with a mix-n-match earlier scope/bracket combo put on it at sometime, plus I'm not sure the markings on the scope bracket are original. I've never seen a hand scribed C-Broad Arrow marking on an LB scope bracket, nor a maltese cross on one either, but I could be wrong. I have seen the maltese cross on the forestock up front and underneath, plus on the rear folding sight.
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
As per the Knowledge Library entry research, I also think the quantity manufactured was ..
Just my two cents … :)Quote:
Qty Mfg: ...................... 992 (Accepted Production from 1941-45 by Department of Munitions and Supply)
Note: .......................... 1141 (Calculated total mfg estimates as of Dec 31/1945 in Laidler/Skennerton publications)
Regards,
Doug
Thanks Badger!!
Should I be looking for a different scope? I can put this scope on my 43 BSA.... Do you know anyone that has the proper scope for sale?.
I can feel the pain coming!!!!!! I collect old Colts also...........They seem less painful! ha ha
Sorry for all the Questions.
Thanks
Scott
Sure, look high and low! If you find a C. No.32 Mk.III, maybe I could swap you a British scope (and some boot) for your BSA as I have need of a Canadian Mk.II (S/N 270, actually).
You may want to add a post to the Milsurps (Angel's Matchmaking Service) forum below which is dedicated to bringing together long separated bits.:
Rifles looking for scopes:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=1039
The milling of that area seems to have been somewhat common in Canadian service. My 1945 LB Sniper had it (rifle was sold a couple years ago) , and had the rifle's serial number engraved into that area. My brit made but Cdn marked sniper also has a similar milled area with the serial number engraved into it. Any renumbered Brit brackets that I have seen merely had their numbers barred or struck out.
The LB snipers are usually a premium over the Brit made ones, mostly due to the comparatively high number of brit examples made and surviving. Same goes for the scopes, brackets, chests and anything else Canadian.
Badger,Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger
I think those figures are based on a misreading of the totals; the 992 (accepted production #) may be the number which the Canadian Army accepted, or alternatively those accepted for export...
Using data from Clive Law's book, (allegedly from the actual archives).
71 mfg up to Dec 31, 1943
1141 Jan 1 1944 to Dec 31 1945 (Note: Skennerton lists approximately 99 [of 350] No32TPs as being set up during early 1945)
@376 mfg by Canadian Arsenals Ltd 1946 (Note: Most or all being C.No.32 Mk3 scopes)
1588 total manufacture
Note: Only 1,524 scopes are recorded as having been produced & purchased by R.E.L. & DND respectively.
Law's conclusions are that the REL No.32 MkI, IA & II scopes are numbered CONSECUTIVELY, while the C.No.67 (No.32 MkIV), C.No.32 Mk3, and No.32TP run in their own sequences. Having said that, MkI, IA & II serials show limited (and unexplained) overlap (probably like a late numbered receiver with earlier features).
Laidler's original conclusion was that all serials had their own ranges, but I have been assured (by Law) that Laidler has since changed his mind to reflect Law's evidence. ....... Feedback by Advisory Panel Member "Lee Enfield".
Source: Without Warning - 20th Century Sniper Equipment of the Canadian Army, by Clive M. Law (2004), ISBN: 1-894581-16-4
The bracket is a genuine piece. Most of those I have seen bear the very crudely electric pencilled broad arrow within a C. The addition of the numbering to the clamps & the milled panel on the centre rib of the bracket to me yells post-WW2 UK issue. I have come across a few Canadian, as well as British mfr brackets modded like this, presumably to take out the original issue rifle serial number. Indeed the panel sometimes contains the 'new' rifle serial within it. One sometimes sees brackets on L42's like this.
The rifle looks honest enough. I must check the serial in my register as it may even have been through my hands some years ago....
Good Hunting!
ATB
PS. Would concur with Badger re the rifle & scope combo -- it's just an honest mismatch.
Thanks for all your information!! Now I just need do something with it............There has to be a simpler hobby out there......Maybe I should stick to gambling.......Its safer and has less rules than collecting enfields!!!:banghead::banghead:
Thanks Again
Scott
I'll trade ya some poker chips for your Long Branch :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Headhunter
Thanks for the correction ... :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
I should have read our own MKL entry for your comments ... :lol:
1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle
Regards,
Doug
My 1943 LB (T) with matching REL Mk 1 scope has a hand inscribed C-Broad arrow. This is the only other example I know of that is similar to mine. Very interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger
I am telling ..........It is easier and safer to double down on 17!!!!!!! The wife will be just as mad(she just found out about the Long Branch)...she said I didnt tell her...she might be right..OOPS!
While we are talking LBs............are there any more out there for sale? Badger??????????
Here is a picture of my '43. The Broad Arrow looks like it's carved with a steak knife.
There are plenty of good looking LB's to be had, just keep your eyes peeled. Someone smarter than me said "buy a gun, buy a book, buy a gun, buy a book". Words worth heeding.
I don't know as you don't often see them up for sale .... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Headhunter
My wife has 2 all correct with accessories LB snipers in her collection (18 serial numbers apart) and says she wants to fill in the gap between them .... :yikes: :lol:
Regards,
Doug