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I was down at my local dealer today the guy behind the counter had just got out of the army he told me that on his second trip overseas they took away the units 9Ms and issued old 1911A1s because in the job they were doing they needed stopping power and the 9M ball ammo did not have the stopping power of the 45acp. He could have been just shinning me on, has anyone heard of 1911s being issued overseas
I have seen a thread about this in another forum (forgot which one) taling about using 1911A1s, but am not sure if it was true or not. If I can remember where I saw it I will post the link.
I have seen many Marine units with the M1911a1 this is the first I heard of Army units using any. If so good for them!!
I thought there were special forces units took 45s as a special contract weapon over to both theaters.
I could be wrong, but I thought the H&K Mark 23 was also used by Special Forces
There was a contract filled by Kimber for a 1911 variant, but I think it was USMC. (MEU something or another)
Both those last posts are also things I've heard. I must admit, I've shot the HK and have no complaints. Kimber's just too expensive for me.
Here's a Wikipedia link for the MEU(SOC) Kimber M-45 (?):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEU(SOC)_pistol
When I was in Iraq in 2005, I saw some SOF support guys from 10th Grp caryring 1911A1s. Nothing special, just regular issue pistols. Funny thing was, the actual operators were carrying M9s!
There finding out the 9mm's don't have the stopping power or killing power because these bad guys will continue to fight to the death. So there bringing back the 1911's again in 45acp. I've also heard that it takes too many rounds with the 223/m16 to take the bad guys out too.
Shot placement is much more important than caliber! I reckon the SF guys train a bit more then the support troopies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper6
spec fors , seals and other misc units were armed with the 1911 or other .45s often at their xo / commander's permission/orders. one small outfit doing security detail for the brass over there had a batch of sig 1911's bought and paid for by their command....
SOCOM Armorers at Fort Bragg build new 1911A1 pistols for SF folks using Caspian components. There are plenty being carried and used in theater.
Special Forces has always had more choice of weapons and more flexibilty. When I was in 5th SF in the 70's there was a huge SF weapons armory that had almost anything used by anyone in the last hundred years. Seeing mp40's, Thompsons, BAR's, PPsh's, etc. at the range was the norm. Choice of weapons was based on what was best for the situation.
Before the Son Tai raid, guys I served with went to local gun shops near Ft. Bragg and bought modern quick aquisition sights for their M16's. These were much more suitable for that night operation. At the time that was nearly unheard of because the military was so closed to new ideas and burdensome. Now even the regular units have more flexibility.
My son-in-law, a USMC Capt, sent me an email on his second tour in Iraq telling me
to pick him up a WW-2 1911 and to try it out. I call a 1911 collector friend and we got
him a RR, all original and it didnot miss a beat with 230 gr ball. Now on duty in Afganistan
carring the RR. He said those doped up insurgents would not be stopped by that 9mm ball,
unless you hit him in the torso with 6 well placed shots. Has not had to use it yet, but he feels
much better about his chances with the WW-2 War Horse at his side, Caught a little flack,but they really don't care, as long as you can get the job done. Simper Fi, go Marines
Look at post #87 of the link to 1911 forum. Some photos of Army guys carried 1911a1.
Military 1911 photo thread (vintage pics ONLY) - Page 4 - 1911Forum
I never Gave up My .45. Carried Her all over the World for 22 Years. Never liked or cared for the 9MM. Always viewed it as a sub gun round. No one ever followed through with an aggressive action when struck with a .45 hardball round. That in and of itself is testimony enough for the power of that fine cartridge. I spent 19 of 22 years as a Member of SOCOM...
I was looking at the pictures (pretty cool) in the post's URL and one of them caught my attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlin
One of the MEU 1911's has "LEAD" engraved on the right side of the frame.
Anyone know what the engraving means???
"LEAD" probably indicates LEtterkenney Army Depot.
Yep , rebuild mark. Quite common on the legs of M1 garands , I believe.
Chris
Funny the few I talked to say the 9mm is fine and kills fine.
scout snipers often use the 1911 supplied by kimber. it is a personal prefrence. its usually not hard to get one issued to you if your in good with your CO.
About 2 years ago I had some 45 ball ammo for sale on GB and I sold 3000 rds to a Green Beanie was on his way to the sandbox with a 45. Had to send me his ID.
Yes the 9mm kills just fine. One of our Sgts(Canadian) engaged a Taliban fighter from his crew hatch in an upper window and killed him with a rattly old Hi Power. I unfortunately don't shoot quite as well when scared, so I WOULD like a .45. As mentioned, generally no further agressive action is noted after a .45 hit. 9's on the other hand....
Another Typical Government SNAFU! Saving Pennies, & wasting thousands! :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911crazy
The 45 has be proven it self over and over again ww1 to Vietnam, It is one of the best hand guns in the world. And when your out of ammo use it as a hammer if you know what I `m saying
I feel that if I have to shoot someone , it's because they are doing something to which I have decided they must stop doing NOW . So important they stop that it puts thier life at risk. If they die then or a half hour later is moot , it's if they stop that's important. The .45 stops best , that's what I carry.
Chris
Its like a freight Train, Just don`t want to be hit with it. Forget that NATO C r a..
I can confirm that World War Two era U.S. Property-marked 1911A1s are being carried in Afghanistan today - by the Greeks! I saw several this morning.
Very informative, thanks to all. I enjoyed it very much.
Wasn't stopping power in the Moro Rebellion a main reason of switching from the .38 to .45 acp in the first place? Doped up then or doped up now. What difference does it make? Just get the job done, stop them.
All a matter of the wrong ammo. With the right ammo the 9mm has enough stopping power. The H&K Mark 23 is in use with the SOCOM´s nice pistol!
I have 2 9's. A Taurus PT111 and a Walther p38. I trust my life to the .45 I carry