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Hi all,
A friend of mine has a delisle carbine.
He is under the impression it is an original,however looking at how few were made I have my doubts.
I have put some photos up and welcome comments either way.
It was missing its forend so we are aware thats not correct.
Its made on 1918 action if that helps.
Cheers,
GDU
The only modern reproductions to be done in any numbers were the "Valkerie Arms" conversions. They weren't all that nice (not wretched either- just kind of a let-down), but otherwise it would be either a one-off or original. I haven't seen but one or two of the "real thing", but aside from a few minor misgivings, it looks OK. What do it's "papers" call it?
You could tell your friend that we have three of these at the Small Arms School at Warminster, all VERY geniune. And without me even walking down the corridor to compare the photographs with any of our three examples, that his is definately NOT genuine. I don't know what else I can add except to say, as I always do, that I could be wrong.......................
Yeah thought that might be the case.
It came from a retired British WW2 armourer who supposedly had something to do with the originals.
Maybe he decided to make one up along the same lines for himself in later years,who knows.
That's the problem when things have been through various hands over the years,you have to be part detective to speculate on something's history.
Bit like "Granddads Boer war long Lee" except its a 20's dated commercial action.......
Once again it's a case of buy the rifle and not the story. And, yet again, my pet peeve, it'd be nice to know at least which Country you/he lived. If it were the UK, you could come and see a few...., but without knowing
It just doesn't look 'right' does it? However it does look extremely well made. It's not a Peter Sarony (Armalon) one is it?
Hi Peter .. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
That information is available for Moderators, Contributing Members and Advisory Panel members only, on an individual post basis, by clicking on the using the small blue colored "Icon" at the bottom of any individual member's post. It provides highly detailed geographic information and Google map type locating based upon the member's post IP (his Internet Address).
Look at pic below and try it out on any member's post.... ;)
If you also look at the member's info box to the left of any post, you'll see two data fields called Local Date and Local Time. Those indicate the current date and time for that particular member, so you have some idea how far that differs from your own local date and time where you live.
Hope that helps .... :cheers:
Regards,
Doug
That's very interesting Badger and thanks for that. Just zoomed in on my old camp at Hopuhopu near Ngaruawahia! On that basis GDU and his pal won't be visiting us in the near future!
Doh, I wondered what that button did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Peter, why is your location shown as a well-known motorway service station? Do you live there, or are you on the road with some snazzy mobile comms....?!
Yup, I noticed that too … pretty far away from you … :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
This Information function was something we added a few years ago. Up until recently, it was only available to Administrators, but we recently expanded it for use by Moderators, Contributing Members and Advisory Panel members. It gives this broader group of members the ability to possibly help other members based upon geographic location, but it's also highly valuable in spotting aTroll (Internet), which all Internet forums are faced with now and then. With almost 14,000 members capable of posting, it's become even more important to protect members, to ensure the safety and enjoyment of the site for everyone.
We had an influx of a huge pile of trolls and dysfunctional posters back in 2009, when we temporarily hosted the Jouster forums here. There were dozens of people logging on under different user names, pretending to be different personalities (some impersonating legitimate members), apparently for the sole purpose of creating social chaos and poisoning the enjoyment of the forums by legitimate members. It was a heck of a mess until we managed to hunt them down and get them all banned from the site. :thup:
This tool really helped, because it allowed us to narrow down the source of these ugly posts and see the patterns of user names, showing many came from the same person, masquerading under many different user names. Of course they denied it was them because they tried to use proxies to hide their identities, but what they didn't realize is that this tracking technology sees their computer right though firewalls and proxies. :lol:
Anyway, it allows us to maintain a safe, clean and professional environment for our members, who can be confident we're not going to let them get abused by other members, spammers or scam artists after their private information. ;)
Regards,
Doug
For privacy, safety and security reasons, the location accuracy level is generalized to an area, dependent upon the IP address block that's being serviced ... :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
So, in some cases it's closer than others, vis-a-vis distance from the IP provider's switching station ...
Regards,
Doug
Several years ago a good friend of mine came to see our DeLisles and made a what can only be described as a SUPERB copy of one. When I say superb, I mean beyond words........ But as an engineer in the motor racing industry with CNC facilities and sound facilities to test it afterwards, that's what you'd expect. Even then, it did pose many problems. The main ones being the random nature of SMLE bodies and milling away a partial diameter to accommodate the barrel etc etc. When he returned to -- several years later, he took it with him
Certainly a worthwhile project but only if you copy the real McCoy I fear............ I have to say that I had thought of converting a deactivated No1 but question whether this, even if the resulting DeLisle was deactivated (on the back of the original deacted No1) would its original deact status be void?
As Peter has said, its a bad copy. Unless it was some sort of pre prduction model (Which I doubt very much), the rear sight is a SMLE item, not a Lanchester Mk1 sight, the end cap is wrong, it should have a series of holes around the bottom. The for sight sits to high (Possibly to relate the SMLE rear sight), there are no sling swivels, the original .303 ejector screw was in the wrong place for the .45 so it was removed and I think a little spring thing was added along the left side. The for stock design is all wrong, it should be a 2 piece design with a short band between the 2 parts. The other things I noticed were the charger bridge rivet holes appear to have been filled, the carbines I've observed had the holes left, why fill the holes yet leave the cutout for the bridge in the right side of the for stock?
Also just noticed that the bolt head has a .303 extractor and corresponding slot machined in the end of te barrel. The real mcoy has a diffrent extractor and no coresponding slot in the barrel
I don't collect deacts (don't want a gun if it doesn't go bang , or at least pop) but I've been given the impression that all new deacts have a proof-house certificate , although I don't know how much detail goes on it . I suspect plod will get quite excitable if he finds something that does not conform . He will chuck the book at you ... you know , the one he wrote himself .
Peter , is your "facility" at Warminster open to the public , or by invite only ?
You could convert a Deac SMLE into a Deac carbine and have it re-proofed as a deac, that way all parts get the stamp and a new cert with .45 and new barrel length printed on it. If I had access to the parts (And equipment), I'd have a go, it would prove to expensive for me to buy a deac SMLE, Thompson, Lanchester Mk1 etc. to make a deac delisle. I do know of a very expensive UK made replica, a very very good one made off the plans, (there are live versions available also) deactivated £2500.
Hi Peter, so you have spent some time in NZ?
Yikes! Doesn't look at all the same on a REAL monitor. Stiil, I don't have squat first hand experience, so every little bit helps! Any real DeLisle photos handy?
ETA: Yah, I've a few references including a small book for the weapon, but they rarely get read because they just don't litter the countryside. Apperently not memorized very well, they aren't.
Legally a certificate has to be issued by the Proof House when they pass a gun as being correctly deactivated. The details include the type of gun, the person or company who submitted it for certification and the name of the person who passed it. Interestingly the certificate isn't a legal requirement of onward sale or transfer - the legal proof of deactivation are the markings stamped on the gun by the Proof House.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouletbill
However, as a deact without a certificate is less Mr. Plod friendly, it reduces their value. Sometimes this can work to a buyers advantage as a seller can think it reduces the value more than it actually does. (A replacement certificate costs about £40)
---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------
A quick nit-pick: by definition you cannot proof a deact - a gun is certified as a deact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
Probably like I ought to be...:lol:
Mark
I saw a original one about two weeks ago that had been converted with a regular heavy barrel and not the type of barrel that the original ones that has a very interesging story with it. I agree with Peter that IF I get a chance I will buy it I will buy the gun NOT the story. I do know however the owner and the story is probably legit and hope to be able to tell the story some day.
Sorry,I am new to this particular forum and did not realise it never stated my location on the left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The gun is in New Zealand ,the British armourer retired to Auckland.
The bloke who now owns it has had it for 30 odd years,and its not for sale I just thought I would find out for him if there was any chance it was authentic.
The fore end was missing when he got it and he made one to suit.
Thanks for the replies,
GDU
I would post some photos but the works computer I'm on wont allow it.
Has he tried cycling .45 rounds through the action? I wonder as the extractor and ejector are .303 standard and as the original Delisle needed these replacing/modifing to work with .45, do the .303 versions here work?
I've done some digging and it appears some early carbines did use the SMLE sights, and did use the SMLE extractor. I also found photos of carbines without the forgrip but these may have been copies. All have the new ejector and sling swivel on the silencer case.
I "feel" your restrictions! Except for weekends, work computers w/ outdated software and wretched monitors are the only access to the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
I ought not make comments on photos I can barely see! (Note to self: repeat a thousand times...)
Converting a Deact into anything is a big NO NO :nono: You will be looking at 5 years or more of porridge, if your an FAC holder then say goodbye to that, if you did go ahead with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
I,ve looked into making a repro to original spec made to the original drawing, it can be done but would be section 5, as the barrel would be 8 1/2 " (see pics)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3425-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3426-1.jpg
To do it any other way is defeating the object, you could make it so the shroud can not be removed which would make it part of the barrel, but then how do you clean it ?
You can make it 3 1/2" longer but again its not to the same spec as the original, to go to the trouble of machining the reciever, converting the bolt and then to change the design of the
"silenced bit" to me is a waste of time, this is what makes it a "De Lisle," then again I only have a full size drawing of the type produced with metal baffle plates, the first type used rubber as the baffle plates but this soon detereated due to the heat. On a lighter note I would say the De Lisle was one of Dagenham,s finest.
If anyone wants a De Lisle type replica, then have a look on the link, ( you have to type in enfield on the search and it should bring up a page with enfields and a De Lisle at the bottom)
http://www.cgfirearms.co.uk/Gallery.aspx?Arg=LeeEnfield&Ctrl=1
The first thing that popped out to me is the mag follower is a Chip McCorrmick Shooting star magazine... not period
I've looked at the Valkerie website before. Not much info there, but the photo sure looks nice. Can you expand on why they're a let down?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Unusual cocking piece for a MkIII* bolt, haven't seen that button type before in this neck of the woods, except on early No4
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....9&d=1288942889
There is always one little thing missing on the repro's and it is missing on this one...
Right !!! Peter....
The only superb quality Delisle repros are made by a company called Shandwick Supply in Scotland. I saw a well used demo example and with the wear and tear, you'd swear it was original. The ones made by Valkyrie Arms here in the USA were absolute crap. I have a friend in Virginia who has one and had to pay a small fortune to get the problems all worked out of it. Apparently, attention to detail wasn't on the agenda when it was built.
Is it just me or does that gun appear to be stove painted? Not even blued?
the rubber on the bolt handle ?Quote:
Originally Posted by wheaty
Even the bolt dampener feature doesn't always follow a standard...........
Repro "Delisle Carbines" are being made in the UK by C & G Antique firearms based in Hertfordshire, website http://www.cgfirearms.co.uk. I have seen one and it looked very good but as I have never seen an "origional" I have no idea how it would compare. They also produce a custom made transit box for it !!!!