No 1 MKIII Identification

Hello all. I have pictures of Dora, looking to see if she really is a Dora. I have crayoned the markings on the receiver and the barrel. Any additional information would be appreciated.

I need to start looking for a magazine cutoff and a stacking swivel.

Thanks,

DAve

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP1348-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP1349-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP1350-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP1351-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP1352-1.jpg

I thought I'd have a go at it based on my understanding of the marks.

The first picture of the butt socket tells you the receiver was made during the reign of King George at the Enfield Factory in 1914 as a Short Magazine Lee Enfield, Mark III.

The second picture of the underside of the barrel shows the steel batch number (if I listened to P.Laidler correctly), and has several "EFD" Enfield inspection marks. The "D^D" mark indicates the Australian Department of Defense, used around the 1920's. The "2" above this mark is I believe indicative of military district 2 in Australia - 2 = New South Wales. The number 116767 is the inventory number assigned in Australia.

The other pictures show various proof marks and the barrel date of 1919. The broad arrow in the "D" is another Australian mark indicating Land Service (as opposed to Naval Service).

The picture of the top of the knox form shows the receiver and barrel serial number - X 9679

Great. I knew the builder and the date, proofs, etc. I "suspected" the Australian connection. Would the barrel date and your mention of the "1920s" indicate the rifle was assembled after WWI? Should I not look for a magazine cutoff because it would not have been issued with one?

Thanks for the quick response!

DAve

Big problems with cutoffs, friend.

Most of them were removed during the Great War (even though they plugged up that slot in th Body) and the Mark III* was built without one. But the Mark III remained the official standard, so quite a few rifles had them re-installed in the postwar years during FTR.

Then along comes that nice Mister Hitler and 4 or 5 million of his heavily-armed friends.... and so the cutoffs seem to have come off again.

If you are restoring it as an original 1914 rifle, though, you need one. Frtunately, they are not really expensive, although the screws for them are hard to find. Trade-Ex in Montreal, Canada, has the cutoffs at C$10, but no screws. Don't know where you are, so don't know if this helps or hinders.

Have fun!
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Trade Ex, got it. tradeexcanada I am in Indiana USA and the price is reasonable, thanks. Yes I would like to restore it to it's original state if possible, though it is a shooter and not a collector piece. For the CB shooting I do the cutoff might actually be handy to have.

Thank you.

DAve

Numrich Gun Parts used to have the cutoff & screw, you may want to try them.

Try Springfield Sporters, the cut-off and cut-off screw I got from them were like new. :thup:

http://www.ssporters.com/parts/ENFIELD1.htm

items number 13 and 14. :dancingbanana:

D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dad

Try Springfield Sporters, the cut-off and cut-off screw I got from them were like new. :thup:

http://www.ssporters.com/parts/ENFIELD1.htm

items number 13 and 14. :dancingbanana:

D.

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Ordered :thup: Wish they had the stacking swivel...

Any ideas on the difference between the butt socket date and the barrel date? It has been suggested to me that the rifle might have been repaired after WWI and then sent to Australia, getting a new barrel along the way. The barrel is in uncommonly good condition for a 1914 with heavily repaired furniture. Heavily repaired, but quite a good job of doing so. I wish the original forearm had not been bubba'd.

DAve

DAve,

Springfield Sporters does have the staking swivel (item 71) and the staking swivel screw (item 70, which is the same screw used in the butt swivel). I do seem to remember that the stacking swivel they sell is the latter one (not offset).
http://www.ssporters.com/parts/ENFIELD1.htm :cool:

You might want to check with "Liberty Tree Collectors" the one they show looks right, but I would check to make sure..... :dunno:

https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...&idcategory=62
D. :beerchug:

Okay, friend, happy you got the cutoff problem solved. I stuck one onto my own Mark I*** partly beause the slot was there, partly because I wanted a rifle with a cutoff.... and partly because I didn't know any better. It's a 1907 Navy rifle, but it seems the specs were pretty loose for that model, so I left it on. They are actually a handy sort of thing and I like usng the rifle single-shot with 10 in reserve. Nobody else at the range has one, that's for sure!

As to barrel dates, when your rifle was made it would have had a new barrel, of course. This barrel would have been dated "'14". You will find the barrel date on the left-hand side of the chamber, just above the wood of the main forestock. Only problem is that when the rifles were sold as surplus, often the new proofs would obscure the barrel date, so you might have to look hard, but that's where it is. Barrel date always was the apostrophe followed by the final two digits of the year of manufacture, which generally was also the year of installation.

If a rifle was "FTR'd" (Factory Thorough Repair), it was brought back to brand-new condition. That meant a new barrel and completely rebuilt to "as-new" condition. The new barrel would also be dated, but it would be the date the new barrel was installed. Also, if a rifle had a worn bore, pitted bore from rust, damaged barrel or whatever, and needed a new barrel, it would get one. The new barrel, as always, would be marked with the proper date, so you always know when the latest barrel was put onto your rifle. That so many rifles still have very old barrels is down to the fact that Enfield-rifled barrels, like the modern 5R barrels which are copied from them, lasted spectacularly longer than others barrels. A 1908 test with the extremely hot Cordite Mark I ammunition gave a barrel life of 12,000 rounds before the barel was pronouned worn out. This is 4 times the life of a Springfield barrel. The British changed their powder in 1910 to a type which gave a far longer barrel life. With the powders we have today, I can't even guess how long a new Lee-Enfield barrel would last.

So it is easy enough to tell when your barrel was put on. It's just that all those silly civilan markings sometimes obscure things. But it's there if you look.

Happy date-hunting!
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There are stacking swivels on ebay all the time if you can't find one elsewhere.