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New here. I have a Mosin Nagant M39 Finnish. 1941 Sako with the straight stock, matching numbers. I've owned it probably 16 years and it's a good shooter. Mine falls a little outside the serial number range for a straight stock (217XXX). Anyone have one? What's one worth even though mines not for sale.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0/11/gun-1.jpg
Bill:
She is a real beauty!
I had just recently purchased a Sako 1941 straight stock M39 myself for $275.00. I have seen those guns go in the range of the upper $300's to $400's depending on the condition of the gun and other markings.
Hope this helps!
There's a nice one in the Finland knowledge library here on the site, proper non-refurb 41 straight stock.
I have a like new '43 M39 stock some place with all metal in VG condition and you can then sell or trade me the stock I don't care which. Would you like a photo?
I did check out that Library on the 41 Sako, it got me interested in signing up here. I bought mine of a co-worker for $50 back in the day. I was told it was Russian then but I remember noticing it didn't look like all the Mosin's I've seen in shops selling for $60 back then. I shot it a good bit and then put it away. About a year ago I got it out and looked it over. using the one website I determined it to be from Finland not Russian. Here a coule days ago I was checking it out online again and ran across this site. I actually was going to use it to hunt with next year since 2 of my boys want to go but I think I'll go with something more modern and keep the old Fin in the dry right beside my M38 Swede.
Are you selling the stock MJ1? Sorry, but I don't need one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillinPA
Straight stocks appear to have been fitted exclusively to the first 6500 M39s, and from roughly 206500-208500 straight stocks appear fitted at random in amongst standard pistol grip stocks.
Mine cost me USD$329 in September 2008. It is in original excellent condition, but it doesn't shoot well at all with anything I've fed it - including handloads. Serial number is 200177 - I think the earliest serial number reported in private hands is 200023. My rifle is built on an 1896 Tula receiver and I imported in to NZ from the US - my fifth rifle to have been bought from there.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ghtstock-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stockrec-1.jpg
I have a straight stock made in 1941 #2100XX it too is out of the serial range, I have read that the stocks became mixed when the pistol grip stocks stared coming in so you can fine then mixed.
Hello All.
Been a member here for a while now but this is my first time posting. I'm looking for a good M39 But I'm not sure about one with a laminated stock are they usually cheaper than a solid wood stock and are they less desirable than a solid wood stock ? Thanks.
Hi, im looking for a Mosin Nagant and i came across a Finnish M39 on a website. Its made by Sako, in 1941, all matching and it looks like its in excellent condition.
I live in Canada, and its price is $500. I want to know if this is a really high price considering i can get a Russian 91/30 here for approx $200. Is it worth the $500?
Thanks
M39s are worth more than Soviet M91/30s...only 100,000 M39s made compared with 13-17 million M91/30s. M39s generally shoot better, have a better quality of fit and finish, and can be found unrefurbished in factory original condition whereas all the Soviet M91/30s available now are 1970s refurbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtfuss
I probably should have said that id be using the rifle for target shooting and possibly hunting. Would it be in my best interest overall for my needs to go for the Finnish M39? Or would the M39 be a better choice for collection value?
edit: Btw fernleaf, what kind of grouping is your M39 shooting? and at what distances?
For target shooting, you wouldn't have a problem with either. Some say the M39's shoot better than the 91/30's but many M39's are made from 91/30's so I wouldn't know how accurate a statement that is. The M39 is definitely going to hold it's value more because there aren't nearly as many of them.
If it's hunting you want to do, get another type. The safeties on these are terrible for hunting. Stand hunting you could probably manage but still hunting which may require a "snap" shot, forget it unless you are walking around with the safety off which I wouldn't recommend.
This straight stock of mine is not a good shooter at all. At 100m the best group I've been able to coax out of it - even with handloads - is shown on one of the attached photos. I suspect the reason for the rifles lack of accuracy is shown in the other photo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtfuss
The stock appears to be twisted or warped, as the cleaning rod doesn't sit directly under the barrel, and its very difficult to get the cleaning rod in and out.
This doesn't bother me a bit, as I didn't buy the rifle to shoot it.
To my mind, if you want to go hunting - buy a modern, scoped hunting rifle, and keep the M39 for the range and for looking at.
However - my other M39 shoots about a two inch group at 100m...with Hungarian Surplus Steel Core Heavy Ball... I've never bothered to do any handload development as I was happy with its performance.
Is the crown damaged on the rifle? Or is the sight slightly off? I want to make sure of what im looking at, hah.
Sights and muzzle are fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichtfuss
Note how the sides of the nosecap aren't straight up and down. The fore end of the stock is twisted thereby putting inconsistent pressure on the barrel, upsetting the harmonics and barrel whip so the barrel will not return to the same place in the stock after each shot, therefore causing inaccuracy.
I have a 1942 B barrel. The rifle is like new. It never shot better than 3-4 inches at 100 yards until I picked up a box of Privi 150 gr sp to have some reloadable brass. I have a Darrell mounted scout scope on it. Well, with the stock out of the box Privi it show 1/2 inch groups. No need to reload.....chris3
There are some very nice examples in the Finland section of our knowledge library. Click the link at the top of the page right below the milsurps.com banner.
Fernleaf, I wouldn't criticize a rifle that can place shots in an area the size of a man's torso at 100 yards. That was the intended purpose of these and most other battle rifles, despite the claims that accuracy in much smaller groups is achievable. It only needs to hit that torso-sized target area to be worthy of use. It would require the user to know where his or her rifle will hit.
Nice looking rifle and certainly a keeper, IMHO.
The rifle is certainly a keeper - it won't be going anywhere for a while. I doubt there are many more in New Zealand.
I don't recall ever seeing a M39 with a laminate stock. Lots of 1891/30s but no M39s. I would be interested in pictures if someone has one.
fernleaf...you could try and steam that warp out. it takes a while and some hot steam.
or if that dont work, also put in boiling water(not the whole stock) up to where its good,then twist slowly until it is good. go a little at a time
I doubt they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTHurley
I had thought about doing something like that, but I don't want to hurt the finish or have to refinish, that would destroy a good collectable rifle to me. The rifle shall stay as it is - pride of place in my Finnish collection.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffinails
I read an article 6 or so years ago about the Finnish m39's. The article stated the Finnish Army specified that the m39 was to shoot a group no larger than 1.3 inch @ 100 meters, those that would not or could'nt be made to were scrapped. Later, most if not all, were modified to use the D166 ammunition designed for long range work in heavy machine guns. This ammo fired a 200gr. FMJ-BT bullet and about doubled the rifle's effective range. Rifles so converted will have a ''D'' stamped on top of the chamber just ahead of the s/n. The article also stated that converted rifles usually don't shoot very well with lighter bullets as the conversion changed the throat dimensions. Lapua still makes the D166 bullet for reloaders. They kinda proud of them though.
Indeed M39s are capable of great accuracy, and a 1.3 inch group at 100m was the standard. My straight stock M39 has obviously developed 'issues' later in its life.
M39s were made from the outset to handle the D-166 bullet - they weren't modified later like other earlier Mosins in the Finnish inventory, but many have later had the 'D' mark added, perhaps to avoid confusion. The 'D' modification also allowed captured Soviet ammo to be used.
Nowadays, the only 7.62x54r loaded in Finland for military use is loaded with the D-166 bullet for use in the M85 sniper rifles. Ammo used in PKMs and SVDs is Light Ball bought from Russia.
I have an M39 with serial numbers just a tad higher than you have, but, I have the pistol grip stock. The only Finn missing in my Finn long rifle collection is the straight stock M39, I have great patients (sometimes), but, not the best of luck, hmm... Should I give it up???SDH
I don't think so. Again, for a rifle variant with low production numbers, they seem to be strangely available. I imported mine from http://www.gunsnammo.com , where straight stock M39s still show up for sale. However, this vendor has a supposed reputation (deserved or not - I don't know) for mixing parts and stocks around on rifles to make them more 'correct' and therefore worth more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdh1911
A bit of common sense and knowledge is necessary to avoid buying a put together rifle from any seller - for example if a rifle has 10-20% blue, worn bore and an excellent like new stock, something is amiss.
Here is my other M39 - 1942 SAKO. Bought from the seller mentioned above...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/m39big-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/m39rec-1.jpg
I have an M39 that i really don't know much about. Marked as follows: 1941, s/n 31xxx , D, VKT in a diamond. Valmet? Top of reciever there's an eagle over NK, Russian maker's mark i guess. Has a pistol grip stock. Sorry, not set up for pics yet. Condition wise, compared to the one above, the stock on mine has a nicer finish but the blueing's not as good. Probably 80-85% w/ near mint bore. Shelled out $125 for it &250 rds. ammo bout 9 yrs. ago. How many Valmet's were made compared to the other makers? What's its value?
Yep, VKT Valtion Kivääritehdas = State rifle factory is now known as Valmet. Yours has a barrel made at VKT in 1941, later assembled into an M39 rifle by AV3 in Helsinki. Serial numbers started at 30,001 so yours is a relatively early barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Eagle over NK is Imperial Russian proofing commission stamp from when the receiver was attached to an M91. Have you disassembled it to see what the date is under the receiver tang?
60,000 M39s were made by SAKO, and around 30,000 were made with VKT barrels during the Continuation War.
I paid USD$279 for my 1942 Sako shown above, so from what I've seen on the Internet yours would be worth USD$200-250.
Nope, never had it out of the stock. Had the handguard off once just to see what was underneath. Now that you've stirred my curiosity i'll take it down asap and get back to you.
This is an interesting thread. I bought an M39 a few months ago from a private seller, $250. It came with an extra M91/30 bolt, a rear sight base tube, and upgraded trigger plus original trigger, and tool kit. The bore is bright, and the metal is surfaces are very good to excellent.
The stock appears to have been refinished, and has a rather unusual, light colored finish, almost blond, with some darker areas, a couple of inches in size, here and there where maybe stain was concentrated during refinish? Also, who ever did refinish, applied a medium gloss surface. So, the stock isn't original, but it doesn't look bad, just unusual.
I am not sure whether or not to use .308 or .312 diameter bullets, have tried both at about 2500 fps velocities, both group 2" at 50 yards...I'm going to slug the barrel this weekend to determine bore diameter for sure. I believe it is capable of better accuracy if my eyes were up to it!
Because of my old eyes, I've installed a Mojo aperture rear sight, which helps me a lot. :dancingbanana:
I'll post a photo or two, and serial number & markings info soon.
Use .310 bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allred
Hornady sells a 174 grain .3105 FMJBT that works well in Finn Mosins. Or the bullet the m39s were designed to shoot - the Lapua .310 200grain D-166 FMJBT over an appropriate charge of N140 to give a velocity of 2350 fps.
Look forward to seeing some photos of your rifle.
I've read the military D-166 bullets were indeed .310 dia but the component catalogs list the current production ones as being .308 dia. Does anybody have a sample to verify the actual measurement?
I've been shooting .308 dia 168gr Sierra's and Hornady's from my M39's and have had great results. My '41 VKT has a liking for the Sierra 168gr Match with VV N140 and will shoot 1.25" groups at 100yds if I do my part.
2" @ 50 yards? Hmmmmmmmmmm,,somthing must be out of place.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0cfa3bfd-1.jpg
I have a nice stock with deep blue metal and the wood is marked with a n S in a circle with two crossed hammers I think.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...45089c13-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b915dab5-1.jpg
I had a 41 VKT that I bought out of a barrel in a Tulsa Gun shop for $69.00 It to would shoot 1.25" @ 100 yds. When I did everything right. Most of these rifles saw battle action during the Winter War with Russia. Mine had the front sight filed down to cut glare as did many of these fine rifles. Some had the wood pieced together with a dovetail joint in the forearm , due to a shortage of full lentgth stock wood. Russia tried to invade Finland twice, but were repelled by Finnish troops and Swedish volunteers. A testament to the skill of these marksmen, Because they were facing a numerically superior soviet force. The ground spot on the front of the Finnish recievers is where they ground off the Tsars crown before rebuilding the rifles to suit their needs. I foolishly traded mine for a M44 Soviet carbine which I also nolonger have, do still have a 91/30 Izzy, but it is no M39. Try to google "Rifles of the White Death for more on these fine weapons.
"Everything was cheaper yesterday." John Sukey
I think I had six at one time for Holiday gifts.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2400efd6-1.jpg
M39s only saw service in the Continuation War, none were made for the Winter War. Some prototypes MAY have been issued prior to March 1940.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishn861
Front sights get filed down generally after they left service by someone who was trying to raise the rifles MPI. During service different height front sights would be used to achieve this.
The two piece stock construction was designed to stop major stock warping from use in cold or wet climates.
Three weeks after it left the US (incidentally the shortest time I've had to wait for a rifle I've imported from the US - must have been the USD$175 shipping I paid...), this rifle was on my doorstep when I got home from work on Thursday.
1942 Civil Guard issue M39 built on an 1895 Tula receiver. most original blue remaining - apart from one notable splotch on the barrel shank -, all matching numbers, BRILLIANT bore, and lovely wood. I bought the Sk.Y Depot replacement sling from Finland a couple of years ago, and have been waiting for a rifle for it...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ynewBIGx-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ynewrecx-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...skynewsa-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ynewbutt-1.jpg
I shot this today with Barnaul 174grn FMJBT and it did not disappoint. Next task is to try some D166 bullets through it...
Nice M39, Fernleaf!
was a carbine junkie, still am i guess, but always seeking bigger kicks, just got this
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9collage-1.jpg
still "waxing" the wood, don't know how it shoots yet
:cheers:
My second surplus military rifle was a Finnish Mosin M39 VKT ($79). I haven't shot it in 20 years now but i did shoot it once. Back then were was no ammo to be found. I had one box of norma soft point's for it at the time. Later on i grabbed two more m39's a B barrel and a sako.($89 each) I also got my hands on 6 of the samco finnish 91/30's($79 each). These were in excellent to very good++ condition for most of them. I guess someday i'll shoot them.
Some of the rifles I have listed on the California WTS boards
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a2e6d05e-1.jpg