Help an Enfield Newbie get started with first rifle?

I just bought this Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk 2 rifle, my first British battle rifle. Markings on the receiver are: 303 British, United Kingdom, IAC ALFX VA (preceding group very difficult to read), then, 12/49 PF 165255 . On the butt stock these numbers are stenciled in white paint: 7.F 5/G7. Stamped on the top left of trigger guard are numerals: 51. On the left side of the wrist/stock band are a small stamped arrow with n/c5 stamped below it, and finally there is a small “s” stamped on the right side bottom of the same band.
On the underside of the forward stock, just a couple of inches from the muzzle, I can barely make out a number (wood may have been sanded & refinished at some time) which seem to be: 53053
So, was my rifle made in Dec. of 1949? What does “PF” indicate? Do I understand correctly that the serial number is 165255 ? Do the other numbers tell of anything significant about this rifle?
I am amazed and somewhat intimidated by the vast amount of information online about Enfield rifles. Indeed, so much that I have not been able to locate any type of operation, disassembly or re-assembly information yet. I would also be interested in a supplier of parts, if such are available. Could anyone get me started with links for a basic manual and parts?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can get me started in learning about my first Enfield! :thup:

Allred, I'm afraid the marking on the butt is the rifle's death sentence. ZF means it has been found to have a problem with the receiver that is not repairable and has been passed up the line, gauged and marked as such by a senior inspector. 5/67 may even be the date of it being sentenced for scrap.

Here's a link to a previous thread on the topic of DP or Drill Purpose rifles. It mentions many rifles were selected for downgrading to DP and not being allowed to fire live ammunition- as I understand, this is what the ZF (scrapped) rifles were kept for.

DP rifles


PS... Like many, you may have posted the same question on other forums- nothing wrong with getting a few opinions, especially when you are new to a topic. But on the topic of a rifle marked ZF, PLEASE check back here to have confirmed anything you might get told elsewhere.... I'm trying to be diplomatic here- it hurts.

And another thread on ZF rifles... marking on Enfields?

I suggest getting your money back on this rifle.

Thankyou Baal, I just spent ages looking for that one and couldn't find it..

Allred, check out the link from Baal first, take note of the respondents. I have a ZF No4 too, (as you will see). Mine will never be fired...

You need to get your money back if they sold it to you as a shooter, ZF means condemmed in non gun language. Remind them that if they sold it to you as a shooter, and you shoot it and get hurt, they will go to jail, after you sue them, if you're alive.
Sorry, but the gents are correct and we've recently had a bad story with one of these. Its a wall hanger.

Browse gunbroker.com for comparative info on other enfields, and try enfield resource.com for lists of 150 sites about enfields.

GOOD advice here allred. I know a bit about this mark from the Army point of view and it's right. It's the death sentence and the 5/67 is the date.

More good advice. 1)DO NOT use it, ever and
2) Don't invade Russia

I'm just glad Allred checked here first before putting a round down the chamber.

Oh, unwelcome news to be sure! But news and caution I am grateful to be aware of. I will indeed endeavor to return this rifle to the seller for a full refund.

However , I do wonder, if a an unrepairable problem existed with the receiver, why wouldn't a mark be stamped there in addition to the painted mark on the butt stock?

The butt stock on this rifle is noticably darker in finish compared to the fore-stock and hand guard. Perhaps the butt stock and it's ZF mark came from another rifle? Wishful thinking I suppose. Still it seems a receiver marking would be more definitive. Any further thoughts?

In any case thank you all very much for the feedback and cautions. This rifle will be a non-shooter and or return, unless some other verifiable condition can be reliably determined. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Son

Allred, I'm afraid the marking on the butt is the rifle's death sentence. ZF means it has been found to have a problem with the receiver that is not repairable and has been passed up the line, gauged and marked as such by a senior inspector. 5/67 may even be the date of it being sentenced for scrap.

Here's a link to a previous thread on the topic of DP or Drill Purpose rifles. It mentions many rifles were selected for downgrading to DP and not being allowed to fire live ammunition- as I understand, this is what the ZF (scrapped) rifles were kept for.

DP rifles


PS... Like many, you may have posted the same question on other forums- nothing wrong with getting a few opinions, especially when you are new to a topic. But on the topic of a rifle marked ZF, PLEASE check back here to have confirmed anything you might get told elsewhere.... I'm trying to be diplomatic here- it hurts.

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Anything is possible as far as swapping butts, but the fact that this rifle has the 300/600 flip sight is a clue to me. Your rifle had the ladder sight, and never were issued (AFAIK) with that flip site. I believe I read somewhere that the usable parts were taken from ZF rifles (Mr. Laidler????) when so condemned.
I need a ZF for my collection....(hint, hint).
If you are really interested in Enfields, I'd recommend you buy a book, The Lee-Enfield Story.

In such circumstances, I would not take any chances and would never assume that the buttstock had been changed at some point - I need my eyes and my hands, and I do not need to leave behind a widow and orphans.

By the way, who is IAC (importer)?

A rifle isn't going to blow up, just because its ZF'd....

Interesting thats its got a "0" bolt head. If the headspace is ok on a "0", then that makes it very strange to be condemned......

Is it worth the risk when theres thousands of them out there? As mentioned earlier in the thread, these are collectable items for some, so I'd leave it at that.

I'm just glad Allred checked here first before putting a round down the chamber.

Agreed, kudo's to Allred ...

That's a red herring Thunderbox because it might well HAVE a 0 bolthead, but it might NEED a size 10!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

That's a red herring Thunderbox because it might well HAVE a 0 bolthead, but it might NEED a size 10!

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And that may not even be the problem... mine has a 1 bolthead and headspaces good.

Stretched bodies, gauged using the special BOLT, Inspectors, bowed at the rear bodies and soft locking shoulders tested with the old Izod impact hardness tester were another critical failure that ZF'd many rifles.

Allred, I hear you may be getting some replies on another forum concerning your rifle. The ZF marking was never applied to action bodies- only the butt. The reason for this was the entire rifle was to be scrapped (due to the receiver fault) sent to a place where they were stored to be either destroyed or used to make DP rifles for future orders. If scrapped, they would be stripped and any parts that gauged within spec would be returned to the spare parts system tagged as second hand parts. In doing this, in the case of the butt- they would have had the ZF marking removed before being cleared for re-use. Capt Laidler mentions the process in one of his posts discussing the exact things being brought up "over there".
The thought that the problem was something other than the receiver is also wrong. The butt is not the problem, it was just the best place to put a clear marking! If it had been throat erosion the barrel would have been changed, if the headspace was out, but the receiver ok, the bolt would have been tested and changed or the barrel would have been changed. Only a serious fault with the receiver brought about the ZF marking, some more of which Peter has listed directly above this post.
There chances of a gunsmith identifying what brought about the ZF is remote. Without the experience, the books and the tooling which was only available to the senior inspector, he will not have any idea. It might headspace ok as mine does, but still bear the mark. It may have been proof fired before export and survived a commercial proof test, but was that the second last shot before it fails? I'll bet you never hear of any that might have failed the commercial proof test-

Thanks to Son for his difinitive answer, in his last post, to my last remaining question:

"Why was receiver not marked ZF".

The private seller is reluctant take it back for a refund, so that avenue is not forthcoming. I am not out a huge amount of money, just the disppointment at having hoped to buy a good shooting Enfield, only to find it is not. Darn! Guess I'll have to keep looking and buy again, and then decide what to do with this "museum piece".

Where do you mark the body with big painted letters saying ZF for all to see? There isn't anywhere. The butt is the obvious place for all to see. Hence we also mark DP rifles with a wide band and DP in distinct lettering - on the butt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allred

Thanks to Son for his difinitive answer, in his last post, to my last remaining question:

"Why was receiver not marked ZF".

The private seller is reluctant take it back for a refund, so that avenue is not forthcoming. I am not out a huge amount of money, just the disppointment at having hoped to buy a good shooting Enfield, only to find it is not. Darn! Guess I'll have to keep looking and buy again, and then decide what to do with this "museum piece".

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*IF* the price is right I would NOT mind having a TRUE ** ZF ** No4 in my collection......................

Also who is the seller he needs to be held accountable for his sale...however caveat emptor.... I am in the US as well....

Here's the kind of information I was afraid you might come across on your search, Allred. Sent to me by a member of another forum...posted today! Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty...

I have a ZF butt stock marked No4 Savage that was used as a target rifle in the 60's-70's ... there is also an R/REME ( Repair by REME ) marking on the opposite side of the butt stock. The rifle is a superb shooter and bears no such markings anywhere on the metal work ... in other words it's a shooter.

It may be possible that you have the stock work from a ZF marked rifle and that your rifle is in fact fine. I'd get it checked by a reputable gun smith, explain the situation and ask for a verdict. If you need to, get a second opinion to make sure ... if the smiths give the ok, then I would suggest you are safe to shoot it.

I know for a fact that there are over 100 previously DP marked No4T's in this country right now that are getting some kind of range time without issue ... they have been in circulation out of storage for over a year now without report of a single incident. This isn't to say all DP or ZF rifles are safe to shoot ... on the contrary; but I would rather suggest that not all ZF or DP marked rifles are unsafe to shoot as there are many circumstances through which they got marked this way and not all were marked due to obsolescence.

If in doubt, have it thoroughly checked ... twice if needs be

If you recall the posts from and quoting Capt Laidler, you'll realise the fantasy world some people live in. This bloke was advised of the same facts months ago by Peter and still chooses to propagate his own theories.... so far no-one has been seriously hurt and I for one will do what I can to try to keep it that way.

Just because a rifle looks nice, doesn't mean it isn't scrap. Here's mine.

Attachment 17338 - Attachment 17339 - Attachment 17340 - Attachment 17337

Well, over for me at least. The seller reconsidered, and agreed to take the ZF rifle back for a full refund. I delivered it to him this morning. I also printed and provided him with this complete thread of information for his use in perhaps returning it to his seller.

Darn! I sure wanted to own and shoot that rifle.....

So, I guess I'm back in the market for a safe and shootable Enfield!!!

Thanks to all who have helped me start to become familiar with this line of interesting and historical firearms! :thup:

Unfortunatly as more people become aware of what ZF stands for, the more of these ZF rifles will have the markings erased and they will disapear back into the system. Then as they fail, the old Enfield will get some bad press.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allred

Well, over for me at least. The seller reconsidered, and agreed to take the ZF rifle back for a full refund. I delivered it to him this morning. I also printed and provided him with this complete thread of information for his use in perhaps returning it to his seller.

Darn! I sure wanted to own and shoot that rifle.....

So, I guess I'm back in the market for a safe and shootable Enfield!!!

Thanks to all who have helped me start to become familiar with this line of interesting and historical firearms! :thup:

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Good stuff from the seller, you should reveal his/her identity as some have expressed interest in owning this for what it is.

Good on ya!

The quest for u continues!!!!

Can't wait to see what u score....


:)

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------

Good on ya!

The quest for u continues!!!!

Can't wait to see what u score....


:)

I wouldn't feel good about publishing his e-mail on the forum, but would send it via pm if anyone wants to contact the seller.


QUOTE=5thBatt;146335]Good stuff from the seller, you should reveal his/her identity as some have expressed interest in owning this for what it is.[/QUOTE]

I hope one of the folks here buys it as a ZF. Would hate to see it sold again as a shooter.